Chris,
Tex is so right the Justin Lace ups were popular here in Texas when I went to college in the 80's but I haven't seen anyone wear them in years. Now I do see many students wearing an ugly "hiking boot" made by Dr. Martens. It's like a packer roper cross I would guess.
Tex,
I thought I would get to come down but started a small remodel job that keeps getting bigger. This is as close as I have gotten to bootmaking in many weeks.
"The Art and Mysterie..."
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gcunning
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sorrell
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
This is the story of the Sandhill boot as told to me yesterday by Ray Dorwart. Please keep in mind that this is his story--if you have any questions or arguments to offer you may have to talk to Ray. He said he got most of the story by asking Jay Griffith about the style, and the rest from talking to Carl Hyer, great-grandson of C.H. Hyer. He does offer this style of boot. Ray Dorwart, Dorwart Brothers Boots, 405-282-1258
C.H. Hyer was a bootmaker in Olathe, KS, but he had a large number of cowboy customers who were from the Sandhills of Nebraska. This area is known for its fine, gritty sand. Cowboys at that time and in that area wore dove-wing spur straps. Rather than a buckle, these straps have a button on each side. The cowboys would drop the spurs over a new pair of boots and just leave them on the boots. Sand would get under the spur straps and in time it would eat through the vamp stitching and the boot would come apart. Hyer developed a boot where the vamp line was 2" higher than a normal vamp. This put the stitching high enough that the spur straps didn't rub against the stitching. This was the origin and the reason for the Sandhill boot.
Gus Blucher worked for Justin at Spanish Fort, TX. In 1915 he moved to Cheyenne, WY. There were no bootmakers in Cheyenne at the time, so he received many orders, but there was no labor pool of bootmakers to hire from and he couldn't keep up with the orders. Justin wanted him to return to Texas so he sent Blucher some money. However, he didn't specify exactly how the money was to be used, so Blucher used the money to move to Olathe, Kansas. He planned to tap into the the Hyer bootmakers work force there.
Archer LaForce was the production manager for Hyer at the time. He left Hyer and went to work for Blucher. He brought with him some boot styles and patterning ideas, including the Sandhill boot. Blucher called this boot Style #70.
Jay Griffith worked for Archer LaForce early in his career, and much later in the 1970's ran Blucher Boot Company. During his time there it was known as Griffith-Blucher Boot Company. This is the story of how and why the Sandhill boot came to be, and how it was passed along to the Blucher Boot Company.
C.H. Hyer was a bootmaker in Olathe, KS, but he had a large number of cowboy customers who were from the Sandhills of Nebraska. This area is known for its fine, gritty sand. Cowboys at that time and in that area wore dove-wing spur straps. Rather than a buckle, these straps have a button on each side. The cowboys would drop the spurs over a new pair of boots and just leave them on the boots. Sand would get under the spur straps and in time it would eat through the vamp stitching and the boot would come apart. Hyer developed a boot where the vamp line was 2" higher than a normal vamp. This put the stitching high enough that the spur straps didn't rub against the stitching. This was the origin and the reason for the Sandhill boot.
Gus Blucher worked for Justin at Spanish Fort, TX. In 1915 he moved to Cheyenne, WY. There were no bootmakers in Cheyenne at the time, so he received many orders, but there was no labor pool of bootmakers to hire from and he couldn't keep up with the orders. Justin wanted him to return to Texas so he sent Blucher some money. However, he didn't specify exactly how the money was to be used, so Blucher used the money to move to Olathe, Kansas. He planned to tap into the the Hyer bootmakers work force there.
Archer LaForce was the production manager for Hyer at the time. He left Hyer and went to work for Blucher. He brought with him some boot styles and patterning ideas, including the Sandhill boot. Blucher called this boot Style #70.
Jay Griffith worked for Archer LaForce early in his career, and much later in the 1970's ran Blucher Boot Company. During his time there it was known as Griffith-Blucher Boot Company. This is the story of how and why the Sandhill boot came to be, and how it was passed along to the Blucher Boot Company.
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Tex Robin
Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
Gary,
Just keep in touch,you need to let me know ahead of time for the visit. I will be glad to straighten you out though
. I charge double for school teachers!.....TR
Just keep in touch,you need to let me know ahead of time for the visit. I will be glad to straighten you out though
. I charge double for school teachers!.....TR-
pablo
Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
Lisa,
Excellent report on this item in Hyer history. I realise it is a story TOLD-TO-YOU and relayed to the members so the following questions are not
directed at you but rather for consideration by all:
1.the time line of when all this took place is key
2.another account( actually two) of Blucher's reason for leaving include:
*Bad weather ran-off the Tx makers that joined
Blucher in WY so he decide to move
*He asked Justin for financial help to leave WY
for the purpose of transferring to Olathe
* $2000 or $3000 is the unconfirmed amount sent
by Justin with the hope that Blucher would re-
turn to Nocona ( J.Griffith would not let the
letter be read by my souces(2) although the
letter was in plain view.)
*LaForce was born in 1896/7 ( 24 when joining
Blucher)
*LaForce claimed in print to having "partnered"
with Blucher for 11 years. Blucher died in 1932
so that makes LaForce in with Blucher in about
1921. Blucher had the style in question in1915.
LaForce would have delivered the pattern six
years late,plus Blucher had already dropped the
pattern from his catalog by 1918.
Again, the timeline is important.
pablo
Excellent report on this item in Hyer history. I realise it is a story TOLD-TO-YOU and relayed to the members so the following questions are not
directed at you but rather for consideration by all:
1.the time line of when all this took place is key
2.another account( actually two) of Blucher's reason for leaving include:
*Bad weather ran-off the Tx makers that joined
Blucher in WY so he decide to move
*He asked Justin for financial help to leave WY
for the purpose of transferring to Olathe
* $2000 or $3000 is the unconfirmed amount sent
by Justin with the hope that Blucher would re-
turn to Nocona ( J.Griffith would not let the
letter be read by my souces(2) although the
letter was in plain view.)
*LaForce was born in 1896/7 ( 24 when joining
Blucher)
*LaForce claimed in print to having "partnered"
with Blucher for 11 years. Blucher died in 1932
so that makes LaForce in with Blucher in about
1921. Blucher had the style in question in1915.
LaForce would have delivered the pattern six
years late,plus Blucher had already dropped the
pattern from his catalog by 1918.
Again, the timeline is important.
pablo
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gcunning
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
This history is so cool!
Pablo,
When is your book projected to be launched?
Pablo,
When is your book projected to be launched?
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pablo
Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
HCC members,
Interruption caused me to cut away before posing the questions in the last post so those questions now follow:
1.Hyer in his 1917 catalog lists a Hyer's Dandy boot in the style in question and it is recommended for " show work". If the boot was designed especially for the sandy region of Nebraska why was the "Dandy" not be called Sandhill?
2.Archer LaForce was from Nocona TX and had been a neightbor of Blucher but he was probably to young to work with Blucher at Justin's as a bootmaker before Blucher left for WY in 1915.When Blucher arrived in Olathe,Kansas in Jan 1918,Blucher was advancing his styling beyond all
others and its improbable LaForce( given post 1934 LaForce styling) could have taught or shown Blucher anything when LaForce joined Blucher in 1921. How could LaForce have shown Blucher the
style in question ( Sandhill) if Hyer had not named it yet? DW's Hyer catalog(1926)seems to have the Sandhill boot listed.
3.Why is the stitching on th Sandhill typical of the Blucher style stitching?
There are more but this will do.
pablo
Interruption caused me to cut away before posing the questions in the last post so those questions now follow:
1.Hyer in his 1917 catalog lists a Hyer's Dandy boot in the style in question and it is recommended for " show work". If the boot was designed especially for the sandy region of Nebraska why was the "Dandy" not be called Sandhill?
2.Archer LaForce was from Nocona TX and had been a neightbor of Blucher but he was probably to young to work with Blucher at Justin's as a bootmaker before Blucher left for WY in 1915.When Blucher arrived in Olathe,Kansas in Jan 1918,Blucher was advancing his styling beyond all
others and its improbable LaForce( given post 1934 LaForce styling) could have taught or shown Blucher anything when LaForce joined Blucher in 1921. How could LaForce have shown Blucher the
style in question ( Sandhill) if Hyer had not named it yet? DW's Hyer catalog(1926)seems to have the Sandhill boot listed.
3.Why is the stitching on th Sandhill typical of the Blucher style stitching?
There are more but this will do.
pablo
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rosynay
Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
Pablo & Lisa:
Your history accounts were so interesting and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
I have a pair of Hyer boots bought on the internet. They are so pretty I keep them sitting on a chest in my bedroom as part of my decour. They were made for a young lady for a gradutation present over 27 years ago and they had never been worn. I have worn them several times but they need a good breaking in to be more comfortable.
Your history accounts were so interesting and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
I have a pair of Hyer boots bought on the internet. They are so pretty I keep them sitting on a chest in my bedroom as part of my decour. They were made for a young lady for a gradutation present over 27 years ago and they had never been worn. I have worn them several times but they need a good breaking in to be more comfortable.
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dw
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
All,
With regard to the Sandhiil/Dandy/"not-so-full" and Hyer boot Company. I offer the following: (BTW, the catalog date is 1924, not '26)
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
With regard to the Sandhiil/Dandy/"not-so-full" and Hyer boot Company. I offer the following: (BTW, the catalog date is 1924, not '26)
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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dw
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
Style 46 (above) is the style we are talking about...it is not named anywhere in the catalog. But on page eighteen there is another similar boot--style 12-- (also not named ) which differs from style 46 in that it is back seamed rather than sideseamed.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Tight Stitches
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dw
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
This also may be of interest since it was mentioned in a previous post...the upper half of the number one stitch pattern is essentially my "one line tulip" pattern (although I also do it in two lines) I don't remember where I got it...probably from Mike Ives.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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dw
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
And finally, I thought someone might get a kick out of this...style 12 was $29.00 in 1924 and style 46 was $18.50. Heck..it wouldn't even pay me to get out of bed in the morning, today.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Tight Stitches
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pablo
Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
DW,
The style 12 is named Hyer's Dandy in his catalog #12 dated 1917(the vamp&counter cut just like Blucher's).
The style 46 is very similar to the Blucher style
70 on page #3 in Blucher's original 1915 catalog -
kissin' cousins if ever there were any.
The mystery page of Stitching - Olathe Cowboy boots and shoes is a Hyer catalog page. There were
two Olathe boot companies and Blucher did not make shoes.Plus, Hyer offered patterns in that manner and the style is quite typical of Hyer..notice the leaf pattern (left one). Blucher ended the leaves with one out and apart( see DW's Sandhill boot in prior post). Each had a distinct
leaf pattern.
Way to go DW.
pablo
The style 12 is named Hyer's Dandy in his catalog #12 dated 1917(the vamp&counter cut just like Blucher's).
The style 46 is very similar to the Blucher style
70 on page #3 in Blucher's original 1915 catalog -
kissin' cousins if ever there were any.
The mystery page of Stitching - Olathe Cowboy boots and shoes is a Hyer catalog page. There were
two Olathe boot companies and Blucher did not make shoes.Plus, Hyer offered patterns in that manner and the style is quite typical of Hyer..notice the leaf pattern (left one). Blucher ended the leaves with one out and apart( see DW's Sandhill boot in prior post). Each had a distinct
leaf pattern.
Way to go DW.
pablo
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fletch
Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
I have a Nov. 1956 Western Horseman ad by Hyer that mentions the "Sandhiller." "Hyer is proud to add the material and design advancements incorporated in its new Sandhiller to a long list of notable firsts in western boot manufacture."
It has a picture of a boot with a 6 inch counter and vamp.
I also have in my boot collection a Blucher boot, style 20 made in 1932.
It has a picture of a boot with a 6 inch counter and vamp.
I also have in my boot collection a Blucher boot, style 20 made in 1932.
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pablo
Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
Gary,
There is no planned time. Its an open ended project which has become too large to have predicted or planned for. Each interview magnfied the scope of subject matter but it will end..I keep thinking next year.
pablo.
There is no planned time. Its an open ended project which has become too large to have predicted or planned for. Each interview magnfied the scope of subject matter but it will end..I keep thinking next year.
pablo.
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cmw
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
Gary and Tex
It looks like I've talked to the wrong people. when I was home. Maybe I was happy to hear that I was not the only one that used Packers/lace-ups.
All
Once again, great subject.
I would still like to know if the opera boots were made from a lighter weight skin than the normal working boot , if anyone knows.
CW
It looks like I've talked to the wrong people. when I was home. Maybe I was happy to hear that I was not the only one that used Packers/lace-ups.
All
Once again, great subject.
I would still like to know if the opera boots were made from a lighter weight skin than the normal working boot , if anyone knows.
CW
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pablo
Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
Chris,
The early English design included utilizing
leather on the vamp and counter and cloth on the shaft. The idea apparantly was that the Opera
boot was a fashion statement and suitable for elegant funtions.Leather all-the-way-up supplanted
the cloth/leather combinations in mid century(1800s). Northampton site has a very dapper example - check it out.. In the UK Northampton Museum(try Google).
pablo
The early English design included utilizing
leather on the vamp and counter and cloth on the shaft. The idea apparantly was that the Opera
boot was a fashion statement and suitable for elegant funtions.Leather all-the-way-up supplanted
the cloth/leather combinations in mid century(1800s). Northampton site has a very dapper example - check it out.. In the UK Northampton Museum(try Google).
pablo
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das
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
This is a bad photo, but a cool "Devlin period" English whole-cut wellington. Looks like a few wrinkles at the break-point:
http://www.northampton.gov.uk/museums/Collections/Boot_and_Shoe/Highlights_of_the_Collection/Prince_Albert_Wellingtons.htm
http://www.northampton.gov.uk/museums/Collections/Boot_and_Shoe/Highlights_of_the_Collection/Prince_Albert_Wellingtons.htm
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das
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
Devlin gives a fine definition for what "Opera" boots were. Here's a weird pair that I could see a man reluctant to exchange his wellington boots might wear to the opera, to look more "dressed":
http://www.northampton.gov.uk/museums/Collections/Boot_and_Shoe/Highlights_of_the_Collection/Mens_dress_wellingtons.htm
http://www.northampton.gov.uk/museums/Collections/Boot_and_Shoe/Highlights_of_the_Collection/Mens_dress_wellingtons.htm
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pablo
Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
HCC members,
Correction to jun 26 Blucher 1918 catalog contents:
The styles 20 and 70 were continued and NOT dropped from his catalog as previously noted.
( my transcript index and file is not complete which makes hazardous authentication accuracy.. when in doubt check your source!)
pablo
Correction to jun 26 Blucher 1918 catalog contents:
The styles 20 and 70 were continued and NOT dropped from his catalog as previously noted.
( my transcript index and file is not complete which makes hazardous authentication accuracy.. when in doubt check your source!)
pablo
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cmw
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
Interested
I got a book from the library. In this book, “the romance of the shoe”, there are some tales (French version) of St. Crispin and his brother and how they were punished by their master Ritius Varus. Can it it be dumb luck that we use the term Varus and valgus to describe the foot?
By the way; in another book there is a quote about the price of a pairs of british made boots (time unknown): “They would make a pair of boots for two week’s wages of a farm labourer.” I write this because there was once some “talk” in the group about how pieces of clothing cost what equals a number of days wages. This is compared to today’s throw-a-way mentality.
I’ll stop here before ya’ll are driven crazy by strange little facts.
CW
I got a book from the library. In this book, “the romance of the shoe”, there are some tales (French version) of St. Crispin and his brother and how they were punished by their master Ritius Varus. Can it it be dumb luck that we use the term Varus and valgus to describe the foot?
By the way; in another book there is a quote about the price of a pairs of british made boots (time unknown): “They would make a pair of boots for two week’s wages of a farm labourer.” I write this because there was once some “talk” in the group about how pieces of clothing cost what equals a number of days wages. This is compared to today’s throw-a-way mentality.
I’ll stop here before ya’ll are driven crazy by strange little facts.
CW
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dw
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
Pablo,
I apologize for being so long getting back to you on this but just to let you know I recieved the package. Thank you! I appreciate it.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member
I apologize for being so long getting back to you on this but just to let you know I recieved the package. Thank you! I appreciate it.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member
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dw
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
All,
I recently achieved something of a "holy grail" for me, personally...I just finished a full wellington on a 7/8" heel last. This is a single...I only had enough for the one. And the leather is not prime. But it was firm and it was a retanned water buffalo. So I think it is a valid run.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
I recently achieved something of a "holy grail" for me, personally...I just finished a full wellington on a 7/8" heel last. This is a single...I only had enough for the one. And the leather is not prime. But it was firm and it was a retanned water buffalo. So I think it is a valid run.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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jake
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dw
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."
Jake,
All my blockers hit the "cruel" boards. That's just a process I automatically go through. But I don't think this could be done...least not the way I do it...without crimping on a pretty severe board.
The boots are not pretty but the leather was not soft or stretchy. The boots sit on the last pretty good and that's a milestone for me. Making a FW on an inch and a half heel is one thing but on a 7/8"...and getting it to break and sit right...has been a goal. I think if I can do that I can do it at any heel height.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
All my blockers hit the "cruel" boards. That's just a process I automatically go through. But I don't think this could be done...least not the way I do it...without crimping on a pretty severe board.
The boots are not pretty but the leather was not soft or stretchy. The boots sit on the last pretty good and that's a milestone for me. Making a FW on an inch and a half heel is one thing but on a 7/8"...and getting it to break and sit right...has been a goal. I think if I can do that I can do it at any heel height.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC