Insoles and inseaming

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dearbone
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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#401 Post by dearbone » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:00 am

Janne,Joe, Thanks.

Joe,my stitches can be a little smaller in comparison to the shoemaker that showed me how to do it,The stitch length on the top row(insole+upper sewing)determines the length of sole stitching and that stitch has to be small enough to pull the welt in place,right below the top one and in the middle of it for a tight water resisting welt,i might get myself in trouble saying this here,but this welt is the best water resisting welt,take it from one who lives in a very wet country and likes to go to the bush bird watching.

Nasser

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#402 Post by kevin_l » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:07 pm

Interesting learning experience. Ordered an insole shoulder from Warkov-Safeer. Also got some pig liner. Got a call from a boarder agent that because the order was over $200 American I needed a broker. It all added up W/duties to be ~$45.00. And the country of origan is listed as ..Mexico... Tanned leather from Mexico..to Canada.. to the US has a duty. Mexico to US, not same. So much for FREE TRADE agreements! EH?

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#403 Post by dearbone » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:58 pm

Kevin,

I go through the same treatment when I buy supplies from the US,I realized some time ago that free trade was not intended for small operations like yours and mine but for big corporations, the soles and insoles from warkov are Canadian and American skins shipped to Mexico to get tanned and back to us again as finished work,enough of that,the good news is warkov shoulders are good,i hoard them when I can,I also cut my heel stiffeners and welts form them,for the welts I sometimes hammer down the mellow strips to condense the fibres a little,they also carry good belly strips for low price.

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#404 Post by courtney » Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:11 pm

Nasser or anyone who knows, Do you skive or cut a groove in the welt for alpine?
I am going to try this can you give me any pointers or a link to previous posts, sometimes its hard to find old posts on here.

Thanks,
Courtney

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#405 Post by dearbone » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:09 pm

Courtney,

No groove on this one,but I skive the top part of the welt where your top stitch or where you sew the upper and insole,if let say 6 oz welt is used, skive one side of it half way,make your welt a little wider than for English welt, Make your channel on the insole and pre-hole it to make it a little easier for you for the first time,if you are stitching all around,skive the overlapping ends of the welt, a welt knife is used to trim the top of the welt when you are done.
Let me know if you have a question.

Nasser

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courtney
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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#406 Post by courtney » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:52 am

Thanks, I just cut out the uppers, so it might take me some time to get to the welt. I might have some more questions when I get closer.

Courtney

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#407 Post by kemosabi » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:01 pm

Courtney, Try this (cut and paste into a google search bar):

site:thehcc.org norwegian

Also; There used to be a great youtube vid of Anthony Delos stitching a Norwegian welt, but unfortunately it's been removed... Too bad.

Cheers,
-Nat

(Message edited by Kemosabi on December 03, 2012)

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#408 Post by courtney » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:14 pm

Thanks Nat, that shows more of the text so you can wade through alittle easier maybe.

Courtney

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#409 Post by jon_g » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:00 pm

It's a different way than I've seen before, totally genius, I could watch this guy for hours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOR_-S3yYnQ

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#410 Post by dearbone » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:01 pm

I just recently posted a photo tutorial of the alpine welt as i know it,it has been a long time and this welt is tough,sewn with 7 strands of #10 linen thread courtesy Jake Dobbins,thank you Jake.
http://nasserviesshoes.wordpress.com/

Nasser

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#411 Post by homeboy » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:13 pm

Nasser,

Looks great! Nice job!
Glad I could help.

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#412 Post by dearbone » Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:09 pm

Jake, the thread was a treat, The bad side was the near freezing temperature which hampered the waxing,the cold temperature was making the wax crumble of the thread when i hole them,but hold well going all around the shoe without re-waxing or a break of a strand and that i have not seen in a long time,I need a wood stove in the shop to do this well in Canadian winters.

A word or two about the two totally different bottoming techniques shown above,The alpine welt i am referring to is what HMSFM refer to as the "Double stitched shoe",p-157 except in the book a mid sole is used and a third stitching row for the outer sole which is recommended instead of using one thick sole which requires some hard pulling to bring the welt in place.

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#413 Post by courtney » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:32 pm

Nasser, where did the tutorial go?

When sewing the alpine welt, do you need to worry about flattening and making the counter and upper, & lining nice or can you sort of disregard all that since it gets trimmed back so far?

Courtney

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#414 Post by dearbone » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:12 pm

The Tutorial went to trash bin,nothing stays there for ever,I can send you the photos you if you like.

I last the shoe for the alpine welt as for other welts/construction,The most important thing for this welt is the preparation for it,The insole need to be soaked in water for few hours,placed in paper and left over night until the next day to put on the last and make channel and holes,The welt and the soles need to be mellow when stitched,The inseaming and the sole stitching needs to be done in one long sitting,So the old teacher advise to me was to stay away from the wife the night before weltingImage your thread needs to be strong for both top and bottom(sole stitch, make the sole thread one strand more if you can,the reason for that is the fact that thread is pulled hard for every stitch and i do worry whenever i take on to make a pair of shoes and i stay worried until the last task is finished,nothing is taken for granted here.


Nasser

(Message edited by dearbone on January 13, 2013)

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courtney
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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#415 Post by courtney » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:35 pm

Sure, I would love to have the photos!

Thanks

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#416 Post by dearbone » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:05 pm

Will do soon, let me know if you need more clarification and good luck.

Nasser

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#417 Post by courtney » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:05 pm

So, I Sewed one alpine welt, and it not easy to get it to lay flat now, any tips on geting it to bend below the stitches and lay flat?

Its pulled in under the counter and flipped up at the toe.

In other words, HELP!!!! Arggghh

Courtney

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#418 Post by dearbone » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:15 am

First of all "easy" is not one of the words i use when talking about this welt,Image Few things I already mentioned can cause or to help the welt stay flat to feather after inseamed, Skiving on side and being mellow at the time of sewing and stitching, not to mention the welt leather quality itself,by nature the curves in the toe and back of last will cause the welt shooting upward but this is a small issue and it will be easily overcome by the use of wood stick when the soles are placed and whatever is left will be pulled down with thread and muscles, The access upper/lining can be glued down to the insole instead of triming it.
send us a picture of your sewing if possible.
Nasser
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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#419 Post by courtney » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:24 pm

thanks Nasser, I think it's going to be o.k., things seem better after a good night sleep. I think it took 4 or 5 hours just to sew one welt all the way around. I trimmed back the welt above the stitches and can tell I should have skived more.

thanks,
Courtney

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#420 Post by courtney » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:11 pm

thanks Nasser, I think it's going to be o.k., things seem better after a good night sleep. I think it took 4 or 5 hours just to sew one welt all the way around. I trimmed back the welt above the stitches and can tell I should have skived more.

thanks,
Courtney

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#421 Post by dearbone » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:44 pm

It takes few attempts to get the feel for it and in years of doing it one gets a thumb mark(deformed thumb), the trophy of all hand stitchers.
The day before begining to stitch the soles,cut them,put cement on the flesh side,allow the glue to dry and then soak them for few hours in water,take them out and place the wetted soles grain to grain and wrap them in paper and put them in a dark spot overnight to be used the next day or the day after,gluing the soles before soaking them will prevent moisture penetration on the grain side which need to stick well to the shoe before stitching.

Nasser

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#422 Post by kemosabi » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:24 am

In the very dry climate of Colorado, they must be used the next day or they're too dry even wrapped in two layers of paper. If not used within 24 hours, placing them in a plastic bag will keep for another day or two. Welts have to be re-wetted while sewing or it's too dry by the time it's finished. A cheap squirt bottle within arm's reach comes in handy.

Nasser,
Nice trick; gluing before soaking.
Think I'll try to avoid the trophy thumb as long as possible!

Cheers,
-Nat

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#423 Post by dearbone » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:50 pm

Nat,

My shoe mentor was 86 years old when i first sat cross the bench from him to make piece work shoes and boots,He has been stitching since he was 12, his fingers were a size of small bananas,his stitching hand thumb was almost twice as big as his other and me being young and new,used to laugh at it quietly with our shop master who was our upper maker,Now some later years i was doing a talk and a demo on shoe making at Bata, Mrs Bata was hosting the event and i never met her to that day,my talk was mainly about hand stitching shoes and it was inside the HQ of the biggest mass producing shoe factory, when my talk was over and i returned to my showcase table of hand made shoes at the other end of the room talking to interested people and answering questions and shaking hands, when i saw Mrs Bata approaching,I stood tall and extended my hand to shake hers,but she pulled my right hand up and was looking at my thumb, when i realized what she was looking for, I told her i carry the awl with the left and she grabbed the left hand and looked, than i smiled remembering my mentor thumb.

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#424 Post by kemosabi » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:32 pm

Great story Nasser.
It figures most full-time makers have strong fingers and iron grip. Amazing how the body builds up to compensate for constant pressure.

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#425 Post by licere » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:13 am

Hello Colloquians!

What should one consider when deciding between inseaming a 360 degree welt to a shoe versus applying a 270 degree welt with a pegged heel rand?

With Gratitude,

PJM

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