Insoles and inseaming

[jesselee]

A note of interest... That lacing thang y'all are doing... Now thats old school. Back 'when', and I mean wayyyy back, that was a technique done with a small animal rawhide, it was called 'whang'. You soaked it, passed it through holes and let it dry and it pulled the upper tight over the last. Takes a bit of getting used to. It's mentioned in the 1856 shop Master book. In whang (wang), you don't go into the inner sole.

Am i correct to reckon that y'all use this technique to avoid lasting tack nail holes and black marks inside the boot?

Jesse

[j1a2g3]

DW

Do you sharpen the blade on the American Channel Knife on the flat side?

Thanks in advance, Joel

[dw]

Joel,

No, never. If you do that it will track funny.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[shoestring]

Can anyone shead some light on this problem I am having.I am inseaming a welt but every time I go from the insole to the welt or welt to insole with my bristle the holes never seem to line up.Has any body experienced this problem and what method was used to make the corrections.I am using mono bristle but jiggling and trying to make it go through only bends the tip.I sanded the tip of the bristle as round as I could,right now I am catching the blues.And I feel as though I am earning a low mark in the school of hard knocks.

Ed

[paul]

Aw Ed,

I understand what you're goin' through, brother.

Once you've made your hole with your sewing awl, rewax your awl and ream it out some. I just kind of go back and forth a couple of times. You don't want to spread the hole any bigger than necessary.

It also helps if you've spritzed your insole some with a sprayer when you're preparing to inseam, to get the leather to hold itself open.

I've also found that if I keep pressure on the vamp at the welt line, off to the side of the hole, it's easier to find it with my bristle. There have been times when I've even had to use a pry knife or some other dull tipped tool to hold the vamp tight against the insole. It works.

Perseverance wins the race, my friend. Pretty soon it'll be as easy as a jerk needle.

Paul

[dw]

Ed,

Two things...first, even if the old texts advocate feeding the outside bristle first (this can work) I often feed the inside bristle first. The trick there is to hold the welt firmly against the vamp when you run your awl through and don't let up on that pressure. Just withdraw the awl and feed the bristle. Holding the welt like this keeps the holes lined up. Once one bristle is through, it will usually provide a path for the other one to follow. I try to keep an "inward" pressure on the welt for every stitch, all down and around the inseam

Second, run the tip of the bristle between your finger and your thumbnail. This will put a little curve in the end of the bristle--like it was wrapping around the edge of a quarter, or maybe a half dollar...but straight is not so good. Make sure that curve is following the line/curve of the awl...ie., the curve should be upward (tip at the highest point) as the bristle is being fed. That helps a lot.

And finally, don't try to force the bristle. Believe it or not "gentle" is the watchword here. The bristle wants to go through the hole, really it does. You have to let it.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[lancepryor]

Ed:

As a fellow novice, I can relate and sympathize!

First, let me reiterate the importance of keeping the welt tight to the upper-- in addition to keeping the holes lined up, it ensures that there are no alternative routes for the bristle to find. If the welt is not tight to the upper, the bristle can turn and come out between the upper and the welt rather than going through the hole in the upper.

Also, I find that, after re-awling the hole with beeswax, I sometimes need to sort of 'burnish' the hole with the awl by moving the awl back and forth, in and out of the hole, with some pressure downward on the awl. I find this helps to smooth out the inside bottom and curve of the channel and helps the inside bristle find its way through the hole. The 'feel' I have is of burnishing the curve in the insole/holdfast near the upper with the back of the curved part of the awl (if that makes sense).

At present, I generally tend to try to put the outside bristle through first -- what I do is to try to follow the awl (which is in my right hand) with the bristle (between the forefinger and thumb of left hand) as I slowly remove the awl. To do this while holding the welt tight (with the other fingers of my left hand) is a challenge, but sometimes I can do it.

I also find that, if I am then having trouble getting the inside bristle through, sometimes retrograding/pulling back the outside bristle (already through the hole/channel) while fiddling with the inside bristle will help the inside bristle find its way. Of course, sometimes I simply have to remove the outside bristle, re-awl and burnish the hole, and try the inside bristle first.

Another thing I sometimes do with a really stubborn one is to pull one bristle back and forth in the hole, again perhaps burnishing or widening the hole in the upper a little bit.

On those occasions when I've done the inside bristle first and can't seem to find the way with the outside bristle, I also sometimes grab the end of the inside bristle and pull it back over the welt to the inside, both to stretch the hole in the upper a little and also to help keep the welt tight to the upper.

Finally, one other thing I do at times when fiddling with the bristle, particularly the inside one, is to 'spin' it around in the hole. Sometimes this helps a mis-aligned bristle find the hole.

I last on my lap with a leather strap holding the shoe, and I also find that at some points I can use the strap to lock down the welt to free up both my hands; other times I sure wish I had a third hand to press on the welt while using the awl and the bristles.

Don't know if any of this will help, but what the heck....



DW: I just starting doing some welting, and your video on the 'hand jive' was really useful. Also, I tried your approach of pulling the outside bristle all the way through, then retrograding that cord with the inside bristle -- really seems to work well and gives my hands less abuse than trying to snatch both bristles through simultaneously. Thanks.

[shoestring]

Paul,DWFII and Lance,

I appreciate each suggestion and will try each method.Hard knock school don't look so bad today.Back to the drawing board.Again thanks for the insight.

[dw]

Ed,

Just hang in there (I know you will)...it will all come together and one day...one bright sunshiney day...it will all click and you won't know why you ever had a problem.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[dw]

Lance,

Glad the video helped. Sometimes it's the little things. I know what you mean about "less abuse." I am actually just about as fast (if not as fast) "retrograding" the inside bristle as pulling them both at once.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[lancepryor]

Oh yeah, Ed, one last thing. Make sure you leave yourself a plenty long piece of fishing line for the bristle -- that way, you can always cut it down if the end starts to get too twisted and weak. I'm facing that challenge right now, but I think the bristle is a bit too short for me to trim, so the inseaming is definitely a bit harder with that beat-up bristle.

[shoestring]

DW,

Thanks for those motivating words and yes I am in it for the long haul.And I will be striving for that day when all this seems to fall in a normal stride.

Lance,

I am going to use a long bristle for that purpose.

Thanks again everybody for the insight.

Ed

[dearbone]

5702.jpg

Rob
So here is the inseaming of the alpine welt, I did not sew this one all around because my insole leather was hard still after soaking in water for a day and left over night wrapped in paper.

[dearbone]

5704.jpg

Now this one is from under, You see where the welt is placed.

[dearbone]

5706.jpg

End of the line, the insole is sewn without a single break.

[dearbone]

5708.jpg

Now she is almost ready to take the sole, That will be done tomorrow God willing, but do not mention this to my mentor, He said he used to finish few pairs a day, soles and everything. I hope that was helpful, I will send pictures of the sole sewing when it is done.
Naaser

[relferink]

Nasser,

Nice job! What is the leather you used for these? Now that I see this I know the technique by it's Dutch name "zwiegenaaid". This is done with or without a welt. will you trim the height of the welt some?
Looking back at the picture from Antony Delos I can now see how with some fancy knotting you can "knot a fancy design" onto the seam.

My grandmother used to have a saying in Dutch that would roughly translate to "Sunday work doesn't durable". In Dutch it actually rimes and the idea was to tell people to take Sunday off and start fresh on Monday. I break that rule frequently but in case you were looking for a way out of having to be in the shop tomorrow.

Thanks for taking to trouble of getting those pictures and putting them up. Now that they are in front of me it "clicks". Glad to see you have the picture posting down so well.
Have a nice weekend and don't work too hard!
Rob

[dearbone]

Rob
The upper is calf with natural calf lining, the name zwiegenaaid I do not know, I learnt many ways of bottoming, Alpine is one of them, As for your grandmother advise not to work on sundays, It is too late for this shoe maker this sunday, because all I prepared in advance, but you can assure your grandmother that this shoe maker will take monday off. Thank you once again for showing me how to post pictures.
Regards.
Nasser

[relferink]

Nasser,
Taking Monday off would be no good in her book. That's what the cobblers did, do their books Monday morning and than head into the bar to complain that they didn't make enough!
Still you won't be the only one working tomorrow, I'll have to head down to the shop for a couple of hours and I'm not even taking Monday off.
Rob

[dearbone]

5712.jpg

Rob
Here is the true alpine welt for you, 6 starands for the top stitch and 7 starands for the bottom thread (sole stitch) it is done with the recent hemp # 10 I recently bought, I will send a picture of the finished boot.
Nasser

[relferink]

Nasser,

That is a nice looking welt. I like the detail of staggering the stitches, just as I was taught in school. I've always been taught to use an odd number of strands in my threads. Any particular reason why you use and even number of strands in your alpine welt? Do you do it for every welt like that?

Rob

[dearbone]

5723.jpg

Rob
Thank you, Interesting what you said about using odd number of starnds, I never heard of it, But than again I was thought by one man, I choose the number of starnds by how the user is going to use the shoes or boots, my teacher said , He used 15 starnds to make 1000 police boots in 1930s I never used 15 starnds yet. It also depends on the hardness or softness of the bottoming materials. The stitches are done like brick laying and you want them to sink into the welt. I use different thead thickness for different works.
Nasser

(Message edited by dearbone on November 08, 2007)

[fred_coencped]

Nasser,I wonder why your alpine welt is left undyed.You made a well done presentation for your fine leatherwork and design.Does the top edge of the welt get beveled and burnished before the stitching operation ?Thank you so much for your efforts and generosity.Fred

[dearbone]

Fred, Good morning to you, It is for esthetics reason the welt left undyed, In this case it was done for you folks to see it better, But to be honest with you, I personly do not like to apply leather dye to shoe thread. Yes the top of the welt gets beveled, but the burnishing is done at the end, I just used the kiwi polish for the above boot. Tell me what you make in your shop?

[fred_coencped]

Nasser,I specialize in orthopedic work,custom shoes ,boots ,orthotics and shoe modifications.Also fine leathergoods like belts ,handbags since1972.For the past few years I have been designing one of a kind belts and buckles with beaded applique also called or described as beaded embroidery.I know a picture is worth one thousand words and I am trying to get unstuck from the workbench to post a little display......soon! Tecnophobia you know! Sorry its taken this long to respond and thanks for your response and your beautiful display of your skills and knowledge,Fred