miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

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dw
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#76 Post by dw » Thu May 23, 2002 9:03 am

Tex and all,

I don't always wet my tops when lasting but when I'm ready to tree the tops I will. I feel you get a cleaner treeing job if the tops are uniformly wet than if they are just spritzed. It seems to me, that the various layers of leather (liners, stays, heel slides, etc.) all compress and "equalize" if they are treed together and in the same state of wetness.

On the other hand, on some light colored leathers I will wet the tops prior to lasting just to prevent water stains which can occur when the water used to wet the vamps creeps up the leg due to "wicking."

I find that cold, cold water does pretty well to prevent bleeding. My theory is that what dye is going to bleed out, does so because it is "loosened" from the leather by the oils contained in the leather. The oils themselves float the excess dyestuff out. So warm water (or soaps which are, after all, intended to cut oil and grease) will inevitably loosen those oils more than cold water which tends to solidify the oils.

Just one perspective...

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Tex Robin

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#77 Post by Tex Robin » Thu May 23, 2002 10:49 am

DW, No disrespect to you but, that is just not the way I do it at all and I disagree with your opinion about the soap. Just my perspective..TR

Driftwood

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#78 Post by Driftwood » Thu May 23, 2002 11:48 am

I am truly amazed after following this Forum for the past 6 months and with it being as well formatted as it is and a membership of nearly 300 that there is not more participation in the perpetuation of our species. It might be the need for the Kevlar body armor when extending a helping hand. I would suppose that what they say is also true. The words of our mouth show the depth of our understanding. My son is a Chemical Engineer with the Monsanto Corporation and he has performed a few tests with different products including vinegar at my request so I would know without the normal propensity for speculation as to different products effects on leather. Again no offense intended just trying to shed a little light in a dark cave.I definately must join this remarkable consortium of collaberators. Once again thanks D.W.

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#79 Post by dw » Thu May 23, 2002 2:30 pm

You know I'm not gonna start sending you flowers, or nuthin, Image but over the past year or so I've come to know you a bit better, Tex (that's part of what the Forum does, too) and I don't take any offence just because you and I don't see eye to eye on ever little thing. We both love making boots and that's common ground enough for me.

Like I told you once before, when I first invited you to come on the forum I knew that there would be differences of opinion. I was deliberately looking for other view points. The forum has fulfilled its promise in so many ways...but most of all that there *is* more than one opinion for people like Gary to hear and be exposed to. Hell, for people like me. Often enough I read something that startles me or interests me so much, that I want to investigate it. Try it out...maybe even adapt or adopt the idea. The last thing anyone who loves making boots or shoes wants to do is get so stuck in a rut they end up being unable to learn...or change...or at least speculate.

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fjones

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#80 Post by fjones » Fri May 24, 2002 4:13 pm

Gary and all the rest of the gang

I would like to express a personal thank you for airing the subject of what tanners often call “color bleeding”. This is a good example of how the Colloquy can be so useful. There are so many personal techniques and I have followed the discussion with interest - picking up a number of ideas and pointers.

I will come back to the matter of color shortly Can I first pick up the point made by Driftwood on May 23. As some will know I do try to make the odd contribution when I have a question or feel I can help. Like Driftwood I think the Colloquy is special and should be nurtured. However I can fully understand the comment regarding “the need for the Kevlar body armor when extending a helping hand”. I am a trifle lucky in that I do not hail from the Land of the Free. In fact I am proud to be a subject of Queen Elizabeth II. Apologies if that sounds in any way offensive, I am merely poking fun at myself. What I really mean is that people seem to be a little more understanding because I don’t type in Mr. Gates’s English but what he quaintly calls “International English” (big grin).

I think I am always happy to have suggestions from others if they feel their approach or ideas might be better than mine but as Driftwood implies, perhaps we should all try to appreciate anybody who is prepared to “bare all” on the Colloquy. A significant number of shoe/boot makers have emailed me privately and said they would like to contribute but they often explain they are not a good enough wordsmith.

Enough of the philosophy but may I crave your indulgence on two final points.
1. Do have a go. Yes, it is a little daunting but every viewpoint is valuable, just look how Gary’s original question has generated so many good tips.
2. Don’t forget this is the HCC Colloquy. What a bargain at $20 per year. What do you mean you have not sent in your dues? Even dirt poor shoemakers can find $20.

Back to the bleeding colors (is that also a joke in American?)
Several years ago I attended a very informative conference lecture given by a leather technologist. Tanning and particularly Leather Finishing are very complex areas of organic chemistry but this guy made it understandable. What we really need is one of the senior technologists at say Prime Tanning to explain the basics of leather finishes and dyes. Then perhaps we could tackle the problem with at least a little basic knowledge. What do they say, Tanners know nothing about Shoemaking and Shoemakers know nothing about Tanning. Does anybody have a contact which might lead to the right person? If an email from England is the way to get noticed, I would be happy to send it. Any suggestions?

Frank Jones
frank.jones@shoemaking.com

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#81 Post by shane » Fri Aug 09, 2002 8:34 am

To all,
Has anyone tried the leather finish "URAD"? I got a free sample and have used on my oil tan work boots and liked the finish. Yesterday I put it on a pair of matte sharks and really liked the finish. In the past I have been using a 4 part finish that consists of a clear cleaning liquid and 3 different milky liquids. It alwals leaves a beutiful high shine on most chrome tans, but it has its draw backs. It strips colors if wiped on and then smudges that color on lighter leather next to it. I guess it is probably supposed to be sprayed on, but I never have. And it also takes time to apply 4 coats, waiting between each application to dry. But this "Urad" is a one application stuff, and works on leather that is open grained, where my other finish just soaked in deep and left little or no shine. The problem with Urad is I haven't tried it long enough or on enough stuff to know how it holds up, but it is made for saddles, so I guess it should be tough. If anyone else knows anything else about this product I would like to know. BTW you can get a free sample from there web sight www.urad.org . This company also has other products such as heel and sole polish, which I have not tried. I hope this info helps someone out there.
Shane

lenboden

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#82 Post by lenboden » Sat Aug 10, 2002 5:57 pm

Shane,
I have used it for several years and have not had any problems with it. I buy neutral in the large container. My liking it doen't make it good, just means I have bought it for about 5 yrs.

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#83 Post by shane » Mon Aug 12, 2002 7:52 am

Len,
Thanks. I really like it too. I plan to keep using it.
Shane

M.H. Strong

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#84 Post by M.H. Strong » Sat Aug 17, 2002 1:31 pm

Hi All,

Been down for awhile my computer got hit by a power surge or dip and whent belly up. Well anyway got a new one so need to get some things going. I'm making a pair of boots out of Nu-buck leather, and this stuff is hard to work with. I've been having touble trying to sew the leather. I've tried small needles and large ones but it still wants to skip stitches. Any help would be great.

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#85 Post by jake » Sun Aug 18, 2002 4:56 pm

M.H.,

First of all, I'm no expert on this subject, but since no one seems to be eager, I'll get the ball rolling.

1. Improper needle selection.
2. The timing between the needle and the shuttle is too early or too late.
3. Inadequate pressure foot pressure.
4. Excessive clearance between the needle and the shuttle blade tip.

Personally, I don't think there is anything special with Nu-buck, but I could be wrong. Does the machine sew properly on other leather? Have you picked up a needle from a different needle system? What size thread/needle are you using? We could on and on here, but hopefully you can give us some more info and others more proficient in this area will step in.

Hope this helps.

Jake

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#86 Post by jake » Sun Aug 18, 2002 5:19 pm

M.H.,

Forgot to mention what I do before I start checking anything else: try a new needle! Even if a needle is bent ever so lightly, it can cause a skip stitch.

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#87 Post by dw » Sun Aug 18, 2002 5:44 pm

Jake, Mike,

Nothing much to add to that, Jake, except that on occasion I have found that if you are gluing components together with all purpose, and it is not completely dry--like overnight--a machine will skip. Not all leathers do that and sometimes different combinations of leathers, such as linings and tops, will make a difference. But it's worth looking at, if nothing else seems to help or make sense.

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M.H. Strong

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#88 Post by M.H. Strong » Sun Aug 18, 2002 10:01 pm

Thanks for the info. So here's some more. I'm using 46 bond thread with a size 16 needle for my 47w Singer machine. It did a nice job sewing in the tounge. But it just doesn't want to sew the vamps to the tops at all. The machine does seem ti sew other leathers with no problems, However the Nu-buck does seem to be a lot thicker. I did cut out a new set boots which I'm putting together now. I'll make sure to let the glue died overnight before I sew them and see if that helps and try to make sure everything is fine tuned.

jonathon

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#89 Post by jonathon » Fri Aug 23, 2002 7:18 am

I agree with Jake. It sounds more like trouble with your machine than trouble with leather. A little trick an old repairer taught me was to "slightly" cock your needle so as the eye faces not at 9 oclock but at maybe 9:47 or so. But as Jake suggested firstly try a new needle. What a difference it can make.

Cheers.
Jon.

Tex Robin

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#90 Post by Tex Robin » Thu Aug 29, 2002 6:48 am

Jon,

Sounds like you might be a pretty good machine mechanic. One of my Pfaffs, which is over 30 yrs old has been skipping stitches for quite some time. Everytime I would turn on a point it would skip the next stitch. I have been thinking about ordering a new shuttle assy. Well, I will wait to order the part for a while. I moved my needle 4 or 5 degrees clockwise and the skipping stopped. I guess it is pretty simple. It just takes up the slack of the worn hook. Thanks for the tip....TR

Mike Strong

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#91 Post by Mike Strong » Sat Aug 31, 2002 12:24 pm

To All:

I think maybe I found some of the best outsole thread on the market. It's 100% pure Linen thread in 6 or 7 cord. The thread is dist by Oregon Leather Co. in Portland it's made in Hungray. This stuff is unbeleiveable. The stitcher at work was breaking thread all the time, even after I had the thing rebuilt. And beleive me I tried every thread on the market to try and stop the problem. I got my hand on the thread from Hungray and the problems were over. You can sew just about anything with the machine now and no problems at all. The nice thing about it is it's only 19.95 a spool. I use it at home in my shop now too. It looks good on the soles weather rubber or leather. If you would like to try some give Jim a call at 1-800-634-8033

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#92 Post by jake » Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:19 pm

Mike,

What is it called? I mean, what should I ask for when I talk to Jim? Hungarian linen thread?

Thanks for the tip!

Mike Strong

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#93 Post by Mike Strong » Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:59 pm

Jake,

The only other name on it is EASY STITCH RT. Just tell Jim it's the thread that their importing of Hungary. Hope this helps

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#94 Post by jake » Sat Aug 31, 2002 3:17 pm

Mike,

Thanks for the follow-up info!

Mike Strong

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#95 Post by Mike Strong » Tue Sep 03, 2002 11:30 am

Well we had a pretty good time talking about inseaming. So Let's talk about skiving. When I was making boots before, I jumped right up and got a skiving machine just like the one that DW had. So now I'm back into making boots again but, limited funds say I have to do my skiving by hand. I've been working on this pretty hard for the last couple of months as I'm putting together some lace up boots. I'm not getting the look I want on my finished edges yet. Still too thick. I'm using a Hyde Skiving knife which I really like and using a gallon milk jar as a dome. the knife doesn't let me take a very wide skive. Should I be looking for a better skiving knife or maybe I'm not doing everything just right(Kinda like the inseaming) Thanks Mike

Eisele's Custom Boots

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#96 Post by Eisele's Custom Boots » Tue Sep 03, 2002 8:09 pm

Mike,
This is strictly from my perspective, but the skiving dome seems to work better while push skiving with a tina style knife. The Hyde knife always seemed to work better on a flat surface while pull skiving. It has been a few years since I pull skived with a Hyde knife though.
Kevin

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#97 Post by admin » Tue Sep 03, 2002 8:47 pm

Mike, Kevin,

I have moved this discussion over here where it won't get confused and lost in the discussion on bristles. It's really worth a whole sub-topic itself but ...we'll see how it goes.

Yr. Hmb. Svt.

Tex Robin

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#98 Post by Tex Robin » Tue Sep 03, 2002 8:56 pm

Kevin,
OK, are you with me?

Are you talking about re-covering the pulleys on your machine? If you are I used some 1/8 in thick cork gasket material. It works greatand I got it at the local hardware store. Is that what you are referring to?...TR

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#99 Post by dw » Wed Sep 04, 2002 5:00 am

Kevin,

Or are you talking about re-felting a grinding wheel? After a good nights sleep, I remembered that I used to buy 3/8" or 1/2" wool felt from Oregon Leather. I think they stocked it just so that you could re-felt your wheels. I also used to be able to get 3/8" poly felt from some big fabric/felt company. This was many years ago. Both would work. But the reason I bought them was to re-felt wading shoes. If you could run down the manufacturer who supplies felt to the company that sells cut soles for fisherman, you might be able to purchase a sheet or strip long enough to do your "A" wheel.

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#100 Post by dw » Wed Sep 04, 2002 5:17 am

Mike,

Kevin has it right, I think. I teach push skiving with a curved Tina knife on a skiving dome. Two curved surfaces, especially when they curve in opposition to each other, affords tremendous control. I can literally skive light leathers such as kangaroo, cleaner and surer than with a skiving machine.

The real trick with skiving is to remove an *even* strip off the edge of the leather that also tapers down to virtually nothing. If you have a 1/2" seam allowance, then you want to remove a 1/2" paring all along that edge (or just *slightly* less than 1/2" ). You want to transition to virtual invisibility but you also want your first line of stitching to be on full thickness leather. However, the main thing is that "evenness." It should be as evenly, and as exactly half inch, all along the edge, as it can possibly be. Along with that, it needs to be an even and consistent taper from the full thickness to the very edge. Dips, hollows and buffalo wallows will not result in a a very pretty job. But more importantly, you're skiving affects the overall refinement and beauty of the finished boot, as well. Nothing ruins the lines, and grace of a boot, faster than a "lump" under the seam...where the eye is expecting a smooth transition.

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