miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

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Tex Robin

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#101 Post by Tex Robin » Wed Sep 04, 2002 6:22 am

Kevin, DW,

what I was referring to was recovering the drive pulleys on a Jack Sander. They come with felt and the felt is hard to come by so I substitute cork gasket material. it works very well and is cheap and easy to find. I don't think it would work on an inline finisher wheel if that's what you have....TR

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#102 Post by jake » Wed Sep 04, 2002 6:30 am

Kevin,

Weaver Leather (800-932-8371) sells felt in thickness ranging from 1/4" to 1". Sold by the yard in a width that I can't remember. Hope this helps.

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#103 Post by dw » Wed Sep 04, 2002 6:47 am

Jake,

Great tip, old friend!! I've got Weavers catalogue and I've pored over it, but never really picked up on that. Wipe my chin will you? Image

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Eisele's Custom Boots

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#104 Post by Eisele's Custom Boots » Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:47 pm

Thanks to all.
I should have explained my self better, my wife tells me that all the time.
I meant recovering the grinding wheels.
Thanks again for the info.
Kevin

Sharon Raymond

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#105 Post by Sharon Raymond » Sun Sep 08, 2002 2:34 pm

Greetings, I would like to express my gratitude to those that mentioned to change needles and/or rotate to 9:47! I was ready to turn my old Singer treadle machine into a plant stand, but this tip did the trick, at a time I especially needed it. I had always thought my cements were the problem, as I try to use latex or other non-toxic cements wherever possible. By the way, my source for this cement has apparently gone out of business. Does anyone else use something like this? Thanks, Sharon Raymond

Driftwood

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#106 Post by Driftwood » Mon Sep 09, 2002 5:28 am

Sharon,A company by the name of S-T leather in St. Louis and Columbus Ohio carry an excellent latex adhesive called Neoweld. Their phone numbers are 1-800-381-5965 and 1-800-846-0060. If you are not satisfied with these then call Midwest Chemical at 1-314-781-5831 as they are adhesive specialist and can provide samples for your specific needs.

tmattimore

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#107 Post by tmattimore » Mon Sep 09, 2002 5:38 am

When ever I try a new adhesive I ask for the MSDS (material saftey data sheet) Many latex cements contain formaldihide a product I am thankfully not yet in need of.

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#108 Post by paul » Thu Nov 07, 2002 9:01 am

I have a question and I hope this is the right place to ask it. I remember reading about packers and crimping the tongue. Would someone be able to elaborate on this? I'm into my first pair and have been using the tutorial that DW published in the Leather Crafters and Saddlers Journal. I'm ready to install the vamp and tongue next. Maybe it's too late in the process to do anything about it on this pair, but I'd like to read others input.
Thank you, PK

Mike Strong

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#109 Post by Mike Strong » Thu Nov 07, 2002 12:44 pm

PK

I'll try to help answer your question. I use a crimping board to do tongues on. DW taught this to me at his school. You might get in contact with DW. With the crimping of the tongues you are getting the L shape you need to place the tongues into the boots. If you haven't attached the tongues to the vamps yet then you can still crimp them. I have always used a crimping board for the tongues and would hate to have to try to put one in flat. It really makes the job easy and smooth. If need be give me a call and I'll try and talk you thought it and how to build a crimping board. Good Luck

Mike
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#110 Post by dw » Fri Nov 08, 2002 5:37 am

There's three ways to put a tongue in a a pair of packers: you can put it in free hand, taking tucks along the lace edge as I explained in my articles/book. This is probably the simplest way but not necessarily the best way.

You can create a "shaped" tongue using a flat layout but cutting a notch in the side of the tongue and seaming the edges of the notch together. This method is detailed in Patrick's book /Modern Patternmaking and Design/.

Or you can crimp the tongue.

Now, from the side the tongue looks like an "L" because it has to follow the front of the leg/foot. But viewed end-on the tongue will look like a "W", except at the vamp end where it will look more like a "U". This is the final shape of the tongue no matter which approach you take. Putting the tongue in free hand only side steps the intermediate shaping and relies on the wet leather and lasting to impart the shape to the tongue. Some bootmakers sidestep crimping the vamps on pull-on boots in the same way.

The crimping board for a tongue must impart that "W"/"U" shape. I have fooled with a number of different shapes and at present have no patterns that I would rely upon to satisfy me with every style of lace-up I make. The crimped tongues I use for a regular packer don't seem to work quite as well when applied to a balmoral style lace-up. And when you really come down to it even on the regular packers the crimped tongue isn't perfect...close but not perfect. So, I've taken to drafting up a pattern that echoes the lace edge and the inside folded edge of the tongue for every pair of boots. It ends up looking very much like the side view of the sewn tongue that Patrick describes. I use that pattern to cut and trim my crimped tongues. That makes up for the inadequacies of the crimping board/contraption. So, I'm still evolving the concept. That said, the contraption is wholly a product of my own devising.

I call it a "contraption" because it's really three boards...it would have to be, wouldn't it, in order to shape the leather like a "W"? The center board is shaped like a fat "J" and it is the inside edge of the "J" that is the "working edge." It is hinged at one end between the two outer boards which are also shaped like "J"'s (only a little different) and it is the outside edges that are important there. I cut the tongue pattern with an exact 1/4" tack allowance on the edges. The rest is sort of hit or miss...but remarkably effective for all of that. I have made tongues using all three methods and wouldn't go back to the other two.

Having said all that, I couldn't have devised this procedure without a clear mental image of what I wanted the tongue to look like...and how I needed it to function in the boot.

Here's a photo of the "contraption" waiting for someone to stick their tongue in it...Image
2292.jpg
2292.jpg (30.95 KiB) Viewed 1134 times


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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#111 Post by paul » Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:42 pm

DW and Mike Strong,
I just wanted to say thank you to you both. I got my tongue in my packers the hard way, 'easing the fullness". I had to get them done as the customer was knawin' at the bit.
DW, I like the looks of your crimin' contraption. I get the idea. Mike I'm lookin' forward to seeing your sketch. Thank you for the call.
I really appreciate that you guys are available like this. I'll post a picture when I get them done. An up close view would be embarrassing though, as I used my patcher instead of a post machine. I don't think I'll ever do that again. I was sober, really, but you'd not know it to look closly.
Anybody have a post machine for sale? My wife said she'd split one for Christmas with me. Sure would like some info about different models and what kind of price I could expect. We're talking about the 51 Class machines, right?
PK

Mike Strong

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#112 Post by Mike Strong » Tue Nov 12, 2002 11:05 pm

PK,

Thanks I'm glad I can help. I have a 47W51 machine for sell I just got a post machine set up. If you need more info please contact me at cmstrong@fmtc.com. I got the drawing and pictures done today will get them in the mail tomorrow I hope. Let me know if it helps. Looking forward to seeing the pictures.

Mike

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#113 Post by rileycraig » Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:57 am

Paul,

First of all, if you have Mike Strong helping you....you have the right guy! I couldn't even tell you how much help he has been to me on lace ups.

I just bought a very nice 59 Class Singer post machine, and you can expect to pay from $250.00 to $400.00 for one...maybe even a little more.

Riley

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#114 Post by paul » Wed Nov 13, 2002 6:12 am

Riley,
Thanks for that information. I guess I need to learn the differences between the models of post machines available. Obviously we need a roller foot. Whatelse is there that distinguishes 51 Class from 59 Class? and are there any other models that do the job?
Mike, it's not clear. Is your 47W51 post machine for sale? I had understood from other emails that you'd just gotten a post machine, a different model, I guess. What model was that? Have you been using the 47W51 for the duty boots you make? Why did you replace it?
Too many questions. Thanks for your help.
PK

tmattimore

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#115 Post by tmattimore » Wed Nov 13, 2002 7:14 am

E-bay has a few post machines on most of the time. However if you are not a good mechanic be cautious. My experience with e-bay has been 50/50 with some real dogs sold as usable. It will however give you an idea of the market price.
Tom Mattimore

Tex Robin

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#116 Post by Tex Robin » Wed Nov 13, 2002 7:45 am

Tom, All,

I have found that even re-built machines are usually no more than cleaned and painted and even if they are guaranteed you have the expense of the return freight....I wouldn't buy used unless I could try it first!....TR

Mike Strong

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#117 Post by Mike Strong » Wed Nov 13, 2002 7:49 am

PK,

My 47W51 is a cylinder bed machine. Yes I've been using it to do the sewing on the duty boots. I like the post machine better. Thats what I learned on. I was thinking about setting up the cylinder machine just to do heavy jobs. But if I could help someone out with it I would and the price would be right. I hope some day to go back and take DW's last class on bootmaking and I will need a post machine for that. Later

Mike

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#118 Post by dw » Wed Nov 13, 2002 9:32 am

Paul,

If I you have enough to invest, I would go with a 136w101 in preference to the 51 class. The 136 has a roller drive. This means that there is constant pressure on the leather when sewing. As opposed to the up and own movement of the feed dog on the 51 class.

When you have a relatively large piece of leather balanced on a relatively small work area (the top of the post) this small difference can help to stabilize the work and results in a smoother line of stitching.

Just a thought....

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#119 Post by walrus » Wed Nov 13, 2002 10:01 am

Hi Paul
I Have both types of these post machines in stock for sale .If you contact me,I will try and get you what you need.
Thanks
Larry Waller
Walrus Shoe & Leather Co,LLC
W8295 State Hwy 11
Delavan WI 53115
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larry@walrusshoe.com Email
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tmattimore

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#120 Post by tmattimore » Wed Nov 13, 2002 12:05 pm

Tex Amen to that I have only purchased two machines in the last ten years that worked as advertised and both were from Larry at Walrus shoe. Even the new machines I paid top dollar for needed considerable work to get right.
Tom Mattimore

bct

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#121 Post by bct » Wed Nov 13, 2002 6:59 pm

Tom Smith did have some post machines for sale.

Tom Smith Custom Boots
PO Box 482
Aspermont, TX 79502
(940) 989-3385

"Riding For The Brand"
Brian C. Thomas

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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#122 Post by paul » Wed Nov 13, 2002 9:17 pm

Wow,
What great response.
I've always been a nervous sort, alot of hand wringing in my youth. I have grown some and don't do near as much as I used to, but I still avoid trouble when I sense it, and walk on the other side of the street.
So, Larry I think I'll be giving you a call. I like the recomendations.
You guys are great and I do appreciate the education.
PK

Paul Krause

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#123 Post by Paul Krause » Sat Nov 23, 2002 3:39 pm

I have another question. (Somebody tell me when I use up my alotment). Is there a record of discussion on bonded sole construction? As opposed to an inseam design, I mean. I've looked on the CD. Usually lightweight ladies boots are seen like this. No welt.
I have a very small pair to make, 4 1/2, and it occurs to me to make them a cemented sole construction. I have an idea there is nothing fundamentally different except to use a light weight insole leather, and that the toe box will be trimmed off flat.
So I guess I'm asking is there anything else I should know going in?

And I'd like to say thanks to all the folks who got in on the help looking for a post machine for me. I'm getting a 236 Class machine from Larry Waller. As I understand it, it's one Jake and Dan played on at the last HCC meet at Walrus Shoe. Thanks again for all the help on that subject.

So, bonded sole construction? PK

texboots

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#124 Post by texboots » Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:41 pm

PK,
I haven't done any of them in years because they are too much trouble. What I do instead is inseam the boots the regular way and then I cement the soles and trim them down close without any stitching. You can roll the welt with a fudgewheel and divide or prick the welt.

But if you insist on doing a cement sole, I taper the insole about an inch from the edge and then cement the lining down good and after laying the toebox I trim it off completely flat. Then I last in the vamp with all-purpose very solid. If this done right the boots will be the most water proof boots you have ever seen. All the time I am doing this I keep flattening the bottom of the boots on the sander. Then, of course the next thing is cementing the sole on....TR

tmattimore

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#125 Post by tmattimore » Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:40 am

When ever I do one of these I also make sure the bottom is well filled between the edges of the vamp with leather as a thin insole will soon conform to the layers under it then the foot and may devlop ridges. A few pegs in the shank area or over the whole vamp will help hold the upper in place.
Tmattimore

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