miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

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dw
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1151 Post by dw »

As a bootmaker, one of the prime directives is to model the last with the notion that there will be no laces to adjust fit, firmly in mind. This means that the last has to mirror the foot pretty closely with regard to girths, in particular. Making the transition to shoes becomes a bit problematic for the following reasons:

If you make the last "exact," especially over the instep, patterning and lasting the lace up shoe...an oxford, for example...can be a challenge (or it was for me at least). If you design and last the shoe with the facings a little bit open...as they should be when the shoe is worn...the chances are high that the facings will curve away from each other on the last.

If you last the shoe with the facings closed...which presents beautifully...the shoe will never be able to be be laced tight or even snug on the foot. And as time goes by the fit over the instep will only get looser.

If you make the last slightly under the actual foot measurement, esp. in the instep area...as many makers do...the shoe can be designed and lasted with the facings closed and the result will neat and refined, with the edges of the facings straight and parallel to each other.

But then the question arises how much under should the measurements be and where? And what about models such as jodhpurs and chelseas which don't have laces or facings? You might not want to use the same last (because it is undersized)...which, to my way of thinking is too much like "guess and by golly." I like, and am always the most comfortable, when my last reflects...as accurately as possible...the actual measurements of the foot. And I like to have one last (that I can count on) for the customer, if possible.

So anyway here is a "solution"(?) that I've been playing around with for a while. Mind, it is still kind of in the "developmental" stages and what is depicted here is just the latest prototype.

Using this technique, the last can be modeled to the exact measurements of the foot and, as a consequence, a perfect fit and a perfect "look" obtained...no matter what kind of shoe is being made--oxford, derby jodhpur, chelsea , with only one last for the customer. [Of course loafers probably need a separate last simply because of the way the comb and the cone must be narrowed down and the fact that the instep of the foot (and its measurements) are virtually inconsequential.]

Again, this is a prototype and, beyond that, there may be other ways of achieving the same results. It might be just a screwy, experimental idea with only incidental significance--it may be of use for others...or it may not.

(also prevent lace imprints)

FWIW...
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1152 Post by RodMomtazi »

Hello,

Right now I am making a children's boot and Ive decided to put a buckle on the top portion of the quarter with a strap going all the way around the top portion of the ankle. I have no experience with attaching buckles to boots and am wondering if anyone could give me some advice in this area of shoemaking (pictures of how to stitch a buckle onto the upper or other pertinent and relevant advice). thank you!
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1153 Post by dw »

Esp. on children's shoes, it might be a good idea to mount the buckle in the center of a short strip if elastic and then mount the elastic to the shoe.
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1154 Post by jlboykin »

I am having an issue with finding the right fluid to use with my spirit lamp. I've used a couple different kinds of "lighter fluids" that say they burn clean but when I put my fudge wheels or edge irons over the flame soot quickly piles up on my tools. I guess I can use my stove for now but I would love to use my spirit lamp for these purposes. Thank you.
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1155 Post by dw »

Industrial Alcohol...AKA wood alcohol or methanol, if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1156 Post by das »

Never mind the brand, this is the stuff: http://www.rockler.com/klean-strip-dena ... gLldfD_BwE
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1157 Post by dw »

Yeah that's it (FWIW, the link doesn't work)--denatured alcohol.
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1158 Post by das »

Sorry 'bout the link. Yup, denatured. The can should be clearly marked "fuel", like for your fondue pot, alcohol lamp, or food-warmer. Any other flavor of alcohol might, uh, er.... blow-up your little wick-heater.
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1159 Post by agathos »

In short, my main question is: should I use both suet and lard (mixed) to tallow my insoles?

I have the suet. The cut insoles as well as some belly should be arriving today.
I saw in the insole thread some mention of tallowing insoles. My question isn't about inseaming, so maybe this is the place to ask random questions. (yes?)

I bought some suet to melt down. I have seen "tallow" being described as a mixture that includes lard (pig) as well. Conditioners include both, plus beeswax, lanolin - cod and maybe eucalyptus or clove oil.

Should I just used the melted suet or add some lard?
If I was going to tallow my insoles, what is the procedure?

wet the insoles, Tallow (both sides?), and then soak/mellow?
Or, soak and mellow, then last the damp insoles, then rub on tallow?
Or, soak/mellow, tallow then last?

Thank you
One pair down, tooling up for those to come
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1160 Post by das »

Be careful, pig lard, suet, etc. can go rancid and smell bad. I've only used 100% sheep tallow, bought it and even made it from sheep fat from the butcher. This is the preferred tallow in all the old books, especially the hardest rendered from fat from around the kidneys. Melt it (don't boil), pour, straining it through some coarse cloth a few times until any impurities are strained-out. When cold it should be stiff, waxy, snow white, and not bad-smelling (good-smelling if you like lamb chops). For use, warm again, just enough so it melts into liquid, and apply to both sides of the insoles with a cheap paint brush. Have tried beef tallow on occasion, but that leaves the leather smelling like french fries from a certain fast food chain with a clown mascot named Ronald.
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1161 Post by agathos »

Well, I wasn't having an easy time finding the lard and was planning to call the downtown butchers - who would likely also have sheep. Sheep tallow is available online at $14 for 2 pounds. I spent $1.50 on the suet and was looking forward to cooking it down. Judging from what I see being sold, careful filtering might be the key to good tallow.

My goal is to have a nice soft insole.

I just opened the box I got from Panhandle. Some precut insoles and a belly. The belly looks fine; the precut insoles not so much. They are not the same thickness. One pair is thicker. Plus there are some imperfections cutting right across two of the insoles. Maybe scraping will help. Ah well. I had to buy them to know if they were worth buying. I'll be using them either way. And, evidently, I'm determined to tallow them.

It's just that for a beginner the hope is to get everything just right and figured out ahead of time - it's no small undertaking.

I am in no hurry. I still have to create the pattern. My enthusiasm to try new things is tempered by the fact that I know this will not be easy. I'm going to be completely hand stitching this next pair.

Oh, yeah. My miscellaneous tip: Panhandle's belly looks good; advice: precuts are ok if you only need a pair; caution: I don't like the look of the welt I bought. I'm not sure if I'm going to use it. It's kind of thin.
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1162 Post by das »

Tallow will not, or at least should not, make your insoles "soft" per se. It merely helps keep them from cracking. Some people's foot-sweat is highly acidic and rapidly causes cracks in the leather insoles, especially the grain if not buffed (scraped with glass/sanded w/120 grit, to velvet-like nap). Tallowing them is just a further bit of "insurance", but scrape them always. I have never seen Panhandle's products, so I can't comment.
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1163 Post by RodMomtazi »

I was wondering if anyone knows what to do when a silver pen does not mark up highly oiled leather?

thanks!
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1164 Post by das »

If marking pieces to cut, like vamps and quarters, I just use a small scratch awl. To mark overlaps for seams, hems, small wing dividers with the points polished and blunted so they only trace a faint line without scratching/cutting the grain, like the effect of an empty ballpoint pen. These faint marks can usually be burnished-out later with no problem.
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1165 Post by dw »

Same here...blunt scratch awl on oily leathers.

Point of fact, I no longer use silver ink pens at all, not even on dry chrome tanned leather. There's never any guarantee that the silver ink will come off entirely and on some unglazed leather, never. What's more, the silver ink pens get clogged and unusable long before their time--they pick up incidental oils and dust (maybe chalk or talcum powder) and you're left with a cartridge that is 3/4 full and nothing you can do to get the ink flowing again.

As I mentioned in another thread, I use water soluble watercolour pencils...depending on the colour of the leather. But I also use some water soluble white pencils I ran across in an artist's supply store in the big city--Stabilo Aquarellable 8052 and/or Derwent Inktense antique white 2300. Both of these hold well when dry but wash completely away with a little bit of moisture.
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1166 Post by RodMomtazi »

thanks for the tips
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1167 Post by das »

What we're here for. Best of luck!
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1168 Post by licere »

Recently I was poking around Patrick Frei's lovely website and noticed that, prior to clicking, he stretches flat sections of hide by tacking them to an equally flat board. This is different from blocking/crimping, because he isn't stretching the leather to a form as one would for a tongue or instep. He describes that this flat stretching serves to help the shoe hold its form after delasting, presumably because much of the stretch will have been removed. I think I understand the logic of this technique, but I haven't seen it described or performed elsewhere. Does anyone have experience with this technique or thoughts as to when/whether to use it?
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1169 Post by dw »

If I understand correctly what I've been told by tanners and leather wholesalers, this is called "toggling."

I do it a lot, esp.for parts of alligator or crocodile skins, but really anywhere that I am concerned there is too much stretch in the leather.

If you decide to try it, take the tacks out and let the leather rest for a day or two before you cut it to a precise pattern. Even toggled and dried thoroughly, the leather will draw up a little after it has a chance to relax.
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1170 Post by das »

I can confidently add, there's a long history of "reaching" (pre-stretching rough-cut vamps and quarters) as it was called in England in the 1740s, before final clicking to pattern and closing. It prevents these components from stretching (distorting) when lasting. It's mentioned a lot in the older textbooks 18thc-early 19thc., usually pulling between two lasting pincers, e.g. 'M. de Garsault's 1767 Art of the Shoemaker' (2009), pp. 62, FN 55.
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1171 Post by licere »

Thank you, Masters Frommer and Saguto! I think that I will give "toggling" and/or "reaching" a try, and having these two terms to aid my research beforehand will certainly increase my confidence to do so.

Best,
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1172 Post by simcha yaffa »

Hi there!
what are the reasons that back of the shoe rubs the ankle causing blisters?
and if you can recommend any practical ways of avoiding this problem when making shoes for a customer - thank you for your time and advice
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1173 Post by das »

There are several main reasons, but it would be necessary to see the shoe that's rubbing and the particular foot it is blistering. Some generic reasons might be: bad last (incorrect back curve); bad pattern (counter point incorrectly placed, stiffener too high), something wrong with the lining or top line edge (bulky edge binding, etc.), or sole too stiff in forepart causing heel slippage.
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1174 Post by dw »

simcha yaffa wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:56 am
what are the reasons that back of the shoe rubs the ankle causing blisters?
and if you can recommend any practical ways of avoiding this problem when making shoes for a customer - thank you for your time and advice
Looking at the photo I am puzzled that the blisters are so high on your foot. Are these ankle boots?

Except for the foot on the extreme left in the photo, the counterpoint and the top line of a typical shoe (and hence, the blisters) shouldn't be anywhere near where the bandages are. Maybe that's a 'stock' photo?

I think @das nailed it. I'd only add that after wearing pull-on boots for nigh on to 50 years, when I first began wearing shoes again, my feet got blisters at the back of the heel. My skin wasn't used to having the heel stiffener cup the back of my foot the way a shoe does.
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Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#1175 Post by simcha yaffa »

oops the photo was just for references...
it's not my photo
I just wanted to know how you can make shoes in the first place preventing blisters on the customers feet?
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