miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

[dw]

Rob, Erick,

See, that's exactly the kind of shoe I had in mind when I said "I've seen and used." that elastic is probably four or five inches wide and the stretch is lengthwise. Looking closely at the photo you posted, Rob, I think I can see the bound edge of the elastic at the top. The stretch is, in everything I've ever seen, perpendicular to that bound edge.

The "gore" on that boot may have been cut from a section that was 12" or 18" in length (I'm just hypothesizing) but the length doesn't really matter, it came on a roll. And the gore was cut perpendicular to the length. I made a pair of Creole Congress boots (similar to what you posted) some time ago and wrestled with the whole issue then.

The reason I say all elastic is longer than wide is because the elastic strands are usually very long and so are woven into the weft of the fabric--becoming part of the warp. I am not saying it can't be done otherwise but it seems to me that it would be a poor quality because then the elastic would be the weft and each strand would be short.

No biggie. I'm surprised your finder doesn't have it though. And most orthopedic houses carry something just as heavy duty but in an even wider variety of sizes for making appliances, etc..


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[dw]

Rob,

Pardon me...when I said "The stretch is, in everything I've ever seen, perpendicular to that bound edge," I meant to say "parallel to that bound edge."

Guess it's time for my second nap.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[jenny_fleishman]

Rob, I think Georgene might sell some.

Jenny

[relferink]

Erick, DW and Jenny

Thank for the info. I'll check out the sources. I'm in no particular rush. Just one of those things that may come in handy to have on hand.

I see now how the bound edge is a good finish, if you had cut the elastic there you would not be able to finish it of as nicely. Never mind the second nap, I'm the one that needs it more.

Thanks again

Rob

[romango]

I have taken apart many pairs of shoes. One feature I often encounter is that the shank is attached to a stiffener piece that extends the whole width of the shoe. Here is an example:

5408.jpg

This seems to have some value in a light weight construction shoe, such as a dance shoe, where the sole is very flexible suede and does not provide any lateral integrity in the shank area. In this case, it appears to be made of fiberboard impregnated with some sort of plastic.

I have played around with reproducing this kind of stiffener but have not had any satisfactory results. Gorilla glue on polyester is a mess. Fiberglass seems like overkill.
Does anyone know a method to make such a stiffener?

[relferink]

Rick,

Try 1/8th or 3/16th polypropylene. It's heat moldable and firm without being to stiff or to heavy. You can buy if from a local plastics supplier in sheet form, check your yellow pages. If you can not find any locally, check with a local O&P shop where they source from or ask nicely if they would be willing to give up some scrap pieces. You can rivet it to the shank or sometimes eliminate the steel shank all together.

Rob

[artzend]

Rick,

Do you guys get 3mm non-woven insole board there? I used it for a shank covering quite a lot. If you glue and then reactivate it it becomes quite mellow and if put in a press will hold the shape. It isn't heavy and is cheap. I guess it is made by "Texon". It is a rough textured beige or light brown material.

Tim

[romango]

I have Texon. It would add some stiffness but is not as rigid as stuff I have seen in disassembled shoes.
Although I have not actually tried it.

[artzend]

Rick,

this is not the standard pink cardboard type of texon but is heat mouldable. It is possibly not as rigid but if used with a shank it should be ok. You could possibly use some veg tanned belly leather moulded wet and then dried.

Tim

[romango]

Thanks Tim. Yeah, I just have the cardboard Texon. Veg leather would also help but not be as rigid as I'd like without being too thick. I'm going to look at the 1/8th or 3/16th polypropylene that Robert suggests. I think there are specific thermoplastics for orthotics that would work but I don't have any experience with them and I assume they would be expensive. Maybe some Herschkleber on Texon cardboard would be something to try.

[headelf]

Rick,
Re: the making of shankboards.
Below are a couple of pictures of me in the process of making shankboards out of texon and greenboard and the finished product compared to a commercial shankboard.
Contact me if you want a sample of greenboard.
Georgene
{CimG0573.jpg}
{CIMG0561.jpg}

[headelf]

Messed up the photo part of shankboards, here's try #2

5416.jpg

5417.jpg

Georgene

[romango]

Hi Georgene. What is greenboard and where does it come from?

[headelf]

Rick, it's a many plyed, glorified cardboard sole board that has a slightly plasticised material binding the many sheets together. Not widely found at typical shoe finders supplying the repair trade. Mine's made in Mexico but there are probably European and Asian sources too. I can supply you but I'd check with who you're getting your Texon from. It's heavy to ship and stubborn to cut with a hand knife. You'll be happier either clicking out parts or using a 5 in one. You can bevel the edges on the finisher as shown in my original picture when you want to blend together sandwiched parts as in shank boards. More common in women's shoes although I've found it in men's shoes too. Usually the shank area is reinforced with the beefier greenboard while the more flexable Texon stands alone as the forepart of the shoe. Also used as reinforcement as a tuck board in the heel area of shoes. Colors vary by the weight and supplier. I've had maroon as well as green colors. For the women's dance shoes you make you'd want to use it for D'Orsay pumps and strappy shoes with an exposed strip-covered insole.

Regards,
Georgene

[jenny_fleishman]

Glad to see this issue being addressed as I am in the process of making dance shoes and am concerned about the same issue.

Is it feasable to stiffen the leather insole with numerous coats of press cement to achieve the affect of a shankboard? Or won't it retain its stiffness through the wear and tear of dancing?

Jenny

[headelf]

This is not just an issue of applying "stiffness". Particularly in the case of a women's heeled shoe, you need enough critical mass, thickness and real estate to sandwich the shank and provide enough material to securely nail the heel.

Most commercially produced shank boards for women's strappy shoes are layered from the insole to the outsole like this: green board, Texon, Shank. Greenboard.
The pink part below is the covered shankboard on a mule type shoe and it measures bout 7mm or 5/16 of an inch.

5420.jpg

[romango]

Georgene,

Can the greenboard be shaped at all or does it want to be flat? I don't really have a supplier for Texon. I called them once and they wouldn't sell to me but their sample dept sent me a lifetime supply as a sample.

I might be able to get greenboard at http://www.lynflex.com/ but I don't specifically see it on their web site.

[jenny_fleishman]

Georgene, could you post a picture of the side of the whole shoe? Wondering what happens to the layers at the end of the shankboard, if the shankboard stops at the tread area...Thanks!

Jenny

[lute]

A couple of years back I was presented with a pair of D'yon half-chaps for repair. The leather and zippers were in perfect shape, but the elastic was shot. I needed either a gore elastic of 18 inches in width that I could cut perpendicular to get the sideways stretch, or a three inch wide by 18 inch length elastic that had a sideways stretch. My research led me to understand that gore-type elastic wider than twelve inches is assuredly made of unobtanium.
I have contacted at least 30 manufacturers and distributors; all acknowledged numerous previous inquiries for such a product, but none knew of a source.

I. Sachs does indeed have 12 inch wide heavy elastic. They were kind enough to order it from Lea & Sachs (different company) for me even though L & S required a minimum ten yard order, and I only needed a half yard to experiment with.
L & S confirmed that there was no elastic available wider than twelve inches.

There are tens of thousands of pairs of English style half-chaps sold every year, with many of them incorporating a black or brown elastic of 14 to 22 inches in length and three to four inches in width, the stretch being sideways.
I am told that a special loom is required for this product. There are apparently few in existence, and these looms are very slow.

R. M. Williams has some of the highest quality gore elastic I've seen.
I contacted them to see if they would divulge their source; they would not, but told me that the elastic they use is custom made to their specifications, is ordered 300 meters at a time, and is not sold by them to anyone else.

Those half chaps not using gore-type elastic are being made with genuine stretch leather panels. Neither have I been able to find a source of stretch leather in small quantities.

In sum, a most otiose quest.

[bill_harris]

I would like your comments about using dacron lacing tape for sewing inseams.

Bill Harris

[romango]

My curiosity was piqued by Jenny's question about using press cement to stiffen the insole. I applied press cement to 4 different materials to see the effect: Pelon, a thin flesh side veg leather skive, Texon and fiberglass. Pelon (available at any sewing supply) was the stiffest, when dry. Second was the leather skive. It is a function of how much cement the material can absorb.

With Texon, the cement just lays on the surface and the fiberglass was just too thin. Still, the Pelon is not nearly as stiff as greenboard like materials but would be better than nothing.

5453.jpg

I still want to try polypropylene and actual greenboard.

By the way, I have been using commercial Congoleum tile for a leather cutting surface. Works great and is easily replaced for about $1 sq ft. I have yet to replace any squares because it holds up well.

[dw]

Bill,

I'm not sure what you mean by "dacron tape?" If you mean thread...dacron thread....it seems to be the only material that 1) doesn't rot and 2) doesn't stretch.

Linen thread of any kind of quality is a thing of the past, I'm afraid. Just as a reliable source of pitch and/or rosin is scarce as hen's teeth. And both rosin and pitch are necessary to prevent even good linen from rotting.

If you measure the use of a material--such as dacron--against the necessity for using it...in other words, is this a solution where there is no problem? And compare it to the result...is a strong inseam made of dacron better than a weak one made of inferior quality linen? and if the answer is that the strength, life, and perhaps even the esthetics of the shoe (or inseam) are not compromised, maybe even improved upon, then there simply is no harm, no foul, in my opinion.

As long as you are giving the best value that you possibly can (given your level of knowledge...not time, not money)...as long as you realize that the trust that is extended to you by a customer is a sacred gift, and do everything you can to be worthy of that trust, I don't think you can go wrong.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[big_larry]

Friends,

Two weeks ago I went into the Hospital and a very skilled surgun performed a total right shoulder re-build on me. It takes a while for the tendens to re-heal and attach back to the bone so I have been kicking back and reading for a while. Please don't ask questions about how you do certain things with one hand, just use your imajination.

I did perform one experiment that I thought I might share. I purchased a vanishing ink pen. As some of you know I am not up to speed with most of you folks but I am plodding along. Well my present challange is to do beautiful stitching patterns and I thought that the "Vanishing Ink Pen" might be a real neat way to mark the uppers prior to sewing. I am using the silver cloth and it works perfectly well, however, the new vanishing ink pen sounded too good to be true.

The ink is supposed to totally dissapear in 72 hours. Well, it doesn't. The flesh side still has brown marks just as readable as the day I marked it. The other leather peices still have a residue outline and you might as well use a pencil as to use the Super "Vanishing ink pen."

I have tried sewing holes in my pattern paper and using talcum powder and this is ok too. I am still working on pattern perfection and stitching. My "Mighty fine" servo motot died and the service is not great. I am installing a belt speed reduction unit on the 236 and see if that is any better.

So much for the "Vanishing ink pen."

Keep up the good work and thank you for tolerating me, Larry Peterson

[dw]

Larry,

As they say, "don't feel like the Lone Ranger." I have been advocating watercolour pencils for marking on leather for some time. I've had trouble getting some silver pen off some leathers. But never had a problem with watercolour pencils...especially in yellow and orange.

However, I had a student recently and picked up a blue watercolour pencil and urged her to use it on her reddish-orange boots. Come to find out...after the fact...some colours of watercolour pencil are more difficult to remove from some substrates than other colours. Blue being one of the most difficult. This info came from a third party who was reportedly an authority on watercolour pencils.

I was embarrased. I managed to remove most of the colour but it was touch and go there for a while.

Nothing substitutes for a good dull, scratch all and a pinpoint mark/indentation made in the surface of the leather.

[sigh]

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[chuck_deats]

Larry, DW,

FWIW, I have had some luck with quilters pencils from the fabric store. Have not tried them on all leathers, but tic marks seem to come off pretty well. They are soft and you need to wet them with your tongue. They also make a fabric eraser that works well on leather.

Chuck