miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

Share secrets, compare techniques, discuss the merits of materials--eg. veg vs. chrome--and above all, seek knowledge.
Post Reply
Message
Author
gaid
3
3
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 1999 3:42 pm
Full Name: Janne

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#151 Post by gaid »

Floyd,

I follow the same procedure regarding measuring the foot. No matter what kind of foot it is.

For a diabetic client, generally speaking, the most important measure is the short heel. In the long run the diabetic disease cause circulatory disturbance which can lead to ulceration, due to the loss of sensibility, if the foot flop around in the boot. When it is about a foot that changes, up and down, the only thing to do that I know of, is to make two pairs. When I was making riding boots this was a problem that many clients asked about. Not so much about the foot but regarding the calf measurement. It could change from the morning to the evening, sometimes with a huge difference. If a snug fit was requested the only thing to do was two pairs.

A boot is perhaps not the best choice for a diabetic client. It is better to choose a laced up boot where at least some adjustment is possible.
D.A. Saguto--HCC

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#152 Post by D.A. Saguto--HCC »

Floyd,

Ah, a bootmaking question. Be careful is all I can say, especially about clipping or pinching the toes at all. Diabetes puts one at a huge risk for gangrene and amputations if the toes are irritated, or blood flow is restricted. I used to carry loads of liability insurance, but it's just cheaper to talk diabetics out of custom footwear [made by me at any rate]. Be careful man, those are the only toes you get issued.
gaid
3
3
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 1999 3:42 pm
Full Name: Janne

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#153 Post by gaid »

D.A. Floyd,

Well, I wouldn't exaggerate the risk for gangrene when it is about diabetes. Many diabetic patients make the debut at an pretty old age and the disease will often not have the time to devolop into the stage of gangrene with the risk of amputation (stage five into the five degrees scale). The best thing to avoid problem with the feet, next to change the fare and to live healty, is to order a handmade pair of shoes included a pair of inserts.

In the orthopedic trade in Sweden we are talking about the five stage of diabetes. The way to grade the patients is by measuring the blood pressure at the ankle and further down the foot. The very red alert is no.5. But a no.5 patient could still have "not so very bad" feet but she is in the risk zone. For a patient like that a missfit would probably cause an amputation because the sore will not heal. For a no.1 patient a misfit is "no" problem, with an adjustemnt of the shoe or if it is the inserts, it will self-heal simply because the blood is still there.

D.A. You are an moderator for this Forum. If you think it is ok I can post a pic of a no.5 foot that have been saved by the orthopedic foot team, (doctor, nurse and the orthopedic shoemaker). However, some might think it is shocking.
Tex Robin

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#154 Post by Tex Robin »

Floyd,

Sorry to hear you are having the problem with your feet and I hope you can get it under control. I have had very little experience in dealing with diabetics and therefore can give very little advice on the subject. What Janne is telling you is about as professional as you can get as he is an accomplished Orthopedic Shoemaker. What he is saying makes a lot of sense with making two pair of boots. With boots though I think I would opt to make my boots with more room so as to use inserts and innersoles to make the adjustments. But I really can't say which is best. Janne can probably tell you more than anybody here on the forum since he is trained in Orthopedics. Keep us informed about your progress and let us know what works......TR
gaid
3
3
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 1999 3:42 pm
Full Name: Janne

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#155 Post by gaid »

All,

Well, since I have mentioned about it I think I have to give a more detailed but still a simplified picture of the diabetic foot grading system.

There is also a visual method of grading the foot which a diabetes doctor, B. Megitts have worked out.
Grade 0; Sore free foot, but with symptom of sore trough adverse strain.
Grade 1; Surface sore.
Grade 2; Subcutane (deeper) sore.
Grade 3; As above but also, invasive infection
Grade 4; Partiel gangrene
Grade 5; Invasive gangrene, in the risk zone for an amputtation above the ankle.

This method together with measuring the blood-pressure, the use of a tuning-fork (vibration sense) X-ray and scanning is the way to decide how to treat the patient from the doctors point of view. The shoemaker make the shoes about the same way regardless of which status the patient have. However, the higher grade the more radical the shoe will be.

Over the last 25-30 years here in Sweden the treatment of this patients have been most succesfull. Today you can't see many grade 5 feet and the number of amputations have decreased radically. The foot-team consist of a diabetic doctor, a chiropodist (not a nurse) and the shoemaker. If these three are doing their job well the chances is good that the patient will walk on his feet the rest of his life.
User avatar
norwegian
1
1
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jan P.
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#156 Post by norwegian »

To all,
Most of my costumers are interested in a low weight on their shoes and boots. My last shown picture and first pair of boots weighted 525 kilogram pr boot. Can those of you interested in this subject give me a lead, or comparison to your boots, wether this is a light or heavy weight?

Until next time
JPM
cmw
3
3
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Chris
Location: copenhagen, denmark
Been Liked: 1 time

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#157 Post by cmw »

Janne
Do these teams work together all the time to avoid confusion, or are they just put together to fill the holes in a possible group.

CW
Tex Robin

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#158 Post by Tex Robin »

J-P,

There's something wrong with your weight. 525 kilograms is 1155 lbs, 5.25 is 11.6 lbs, and .525 is l.16 lbs. Which one is it? If it is .525 you have a light weight boot!....TR
gaid
3
3
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 1999 3:42 pm
Full Name: Janne

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#159 Post by gaid »

Chris,
The diabetic foot-team usually meet a couple of times a week depending on how big reception area the hospital have. The chiropodist is the spider in the web, all patients which are in a risk zone meet her at least once a week. If she see that something have to be adjusted regarding the shoe or insert she send the patient to the shop. In the shop I worked at in Stockholm there was always one maker available for patients from the foot-team. This is a time consumption job but the pay back is very good, the patients will walk on their own feet in stead of prosthesis.
User avatar
norwegian
1
1
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jan P.
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#160 Post by norwegian »

Tex,
I do not belive there is anything wrong with the weight. You see, in Europe generally and in scandinavia particulary, we use "kilogram". I am sorry but I can not answer your question. Somebody, help us with a translation of these weights? 525 kilogram is just above half a kilo, that is all I can add.

Until next time
JPM
casetradeboots
1
1
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Floyd E.
Location: Oakland, Iowa, USA
Been Liked: 1 time

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#161 Post by casetradeboots »

All,

I can't say that I am having a problem with sores or my feet. I just gained a lot of weight back and instead of it showing in all the usual places, it went to my feet.

Janne, I thank you for that information. My doctor has frowned and lectured on my insistance on wearing my products. Getting old has more than one downside I guess.

Thanks all...Floyd
cmw
3
3
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Chris
Location: copenhagen, denmark
Been Liked: 1 time

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#162 Post by cmw »

Jan

16 ounces is 453 grams/.453 kg

CW
cmw
3
3
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Chris
Location: copenhagen, denmark
Been Liked: 1 time

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#163 Post by cmw »

Janne

Thanks for the info.

Ha' det godt
CW
User avatar
gcunning
4
4
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Gary
Location: Wichita Falls, TX, USA

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#164 Post by gcunning »

Can I get some opinions on how people's finishers are set up? I had to balance my wheels and I started to put back on the same sandpaper I took off (a shoemaker had it before me)(no offence JanneImage. My 4" had 80 grit so did my 2.5". My 1"(?) had 40 grit and I think the others had 100 grit. Just kind of wondering about other people.
cmw
3
3
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Chris
Location: copenhagen, denmark
Been Liked: 1 time

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#165 Post by cmw »

Janne

I was talking to my boss about the above mentioned team. I would think that the shoemaker is a master. Is that correct? This thought led me to the next. If he is a master, then there are not that many. As I understand it, the test alone takes ca. a month. Does it take that long in Sweden?

CW
gaid
3
3
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 1999 3:42 pm
Full Name: Janne

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#166 Post by gaid »

Chris,
Well, the word "master" have no longer a meaning in Sweden since the old system no longer is in practice. I made the "qualifying piece of work" -81 after three years "apprenticeship". I am working as an orthopedic shoe-technician not as a journeyman. The key word today is the experience not the title. At the shop in Stockholm all of the makers have been more then 25 years in the trade. The only masters that still is in Sweden are from Germany where the system is in practice. The title they get here is orthopedic shoe-engineer. Man, all these words!
cmw
3
3
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Chris
Location: copenhagen, denmark
Been Liked: 1 time

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#167 Post by cmw »

Janne

I wish that is the way it was in Denmark. I am butting my head against a biggg wall. The masters are protective of thier knowlegde. The masters are the only ones that form the last in the normal othopaedic shop here. When I ask for help when I want to adjust a last ( for myself) to compensate for my right varus foot, you should see the response the teacher gives. I,m very thankful for my boss. He helps me alot with things they say nooo to.

CW
rileycraig
2
2
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Riley G.

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#168 Post by rileycraig »

Gary,

On the small wheels I use 60, 40 and 100 grit. On the 4" wheels I use 60 and 100 grit. You didn't ask, but on the naumkeg I use 120 grit. I don't have any specific reason for this combination, but it works well for me.

Good Bookmaking,

Riley
User avatar
gcunning
4
4
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Gary
Location: Wichita Falls, TX, USA

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#169 Post by gcunning »

Riley,
Thanks. I don't feel my set up is to far off then. You say you have no reason in the combination, hasn't it ever crossed your mind if a 25 or 120 might make some steps easier? I guess if it works why mess with it though.

I would like to hear opinions on the reasoning in their sandpaper setup.

Also I balanced my wheels with a board and sandpaper. I would like to know how others do it.
rileycraig
2
2
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Riley G.

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#170 Post by rileycraig »

All,

I hope this is the correct place for this...I'd like some input on turning boots. I was taught to turn them either from the top, or to start at the side seam at the heel counter/vamp quarter junction. Both ways have been working well. BUT, now I'm faced with the problem of having to make a pair of boots with tooled shafts, and having to use a heavier veg tanned leather. I've tooled many vamps and tops, for other people, but now I'm faced with it. I've never seen a boot turned through a pipe and can't even imagine how that would be done, but I know it's done. I'm wondering if, with the heavier leather for the shafts, I should try this method...if someone would be kind enough to tell me how it works. Or maybe shed a little insight on how you turn your boots. As always, all help is appreciated.

Good bootmaking,

Riley
mnewberry
1
1
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:00 am
Full Name: Matt Newberry

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#171 Post by mnewberry »

Riley,

I have always made my tooled top boots in a one piece top, to keep from having to turn them. You could also do a covered outside seam on your two piece tops to the same effect. At any rate, I have never felt good about putting any quality carving to the test that turning would put them through.

As far as turning other boots, I simply start at the top and work it down. I was once given a "tool" for the job, which involved sliding the tops, vamp first, onto a piece of large ABS pipe that is mounted to a benchtop. Then through a hole in the bench and up through the pipe, modified boot hooks went into the pulls. These hooks had a strap and foot loop to pull down on the tops, while your hands asisst to roll the top (inside out on the outside of the pipe to right side out on the inside). I saw it work once, and it seemed great, but I've never used it as I don't want to try to sew pulls on and inside-out boot...
User avatar
gcunning
4
4
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Gary
Location: Wichita Falls, TX, USA

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#172 Post by gcunning »

Riley
What I have learned is simalar to Matt. When you tool leather then start to put tension in different places it usually will stretch and distort the images.
Tex Robin

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#173 Post by Tex Robin »

Riley,

I have made several pair of boots with tooled tops and seen several more made and none of them were one piece tops but the regular kind you have to turn. If I had to make a pair now I would do the same way but I would leave the leather infinished till after they were turned and then finish them. I don't see any problem......TR
fneiii

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#174 Post by fneiii »

Riley, Dick Sherer from Colorado made a device that allows the tooling to be done when the boot is right side out. The device was featured in a back issue of The Leather Crafters Journal. Sorry I don't know what issue.
Frank
paul
8
8
Posts: 1038
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:00 am
Full Name: Paul Krause
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Been Liked: 14 times
Contact:

Re: miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

#175 Post by paul »

Riley,

I'm far from having any authoritative 'how-to' info, but I'll gladly share what I've been doing with my tooled tops. I close the medial side as usual and only the vamp/counter of the lateral side. Then I do an 'S' lace the rest of the way up that seam. I don't believe there's much trauma to the tooling with just that bit of turning. Because this seam is 'butted' when lacing, I have eliminated the stitch allowance here. Furthermore, on my last pair, I discovered that the laced side was taller than the seamed side, because of the thickness of the lacing. So next time, if I do it that way again, I'll reduce the length of the side by 3/8" or so.

When I learn that method, I sure would go along with the one piece design, for tooled tops. I'll also add that the second pair I tooled, I finished the leather first and had hell with stains, ended up spraying an antique edge all around to cover them up. The next pair, I followed Tex's advice and didn't put a finish on 'til afterward. It came out much better.
I remember seeing the article mentioned by Frank on the Dick Sherer device for tooling after turning, I think that would be another really cool way to go.

What ounce leather are you working with?

PK
Post Reply