Tools of the Trade

[amuckart]

I've recently acquired, very cheaply, of a bunch of sole irons in various shapes and sizes. Most were pretty filthy and a bit rusted but recoverable.

I've gotten the rust off them all now with a mixture of electrolysis and grey scotchbrite and now I'm wondering what sort of finish the faces need in order to work properly. Is it just a case of getting them clean and free of pitting or should I be looking at carefully polishing the faces to 1200 grit or mirror? I'm cautious about maintaining the shape and angles of the faces.

[dw]

Alasdair,

I'm not sure what you're asking but I would think that as far as possible you would want to duplicate the surface on a new edge iron. mine are all poished so that's what I would shoot for.

That said, you're right to want to preserve the angles and features that were original. If polishing cannot remove all rust pits, then you might want to preserve the tool as an antique--put it in a shadow box--or trust that the pits are shallow enough they will fill with wax and not cause a problem.

Not a lot of good options if the steel cannot be smoothed out.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[das]

Alasdair,

To be in tip-top condition for use, the faces need to be as close to a mirror polish as you can maintain, but be careful of the "wires". Up near the guard (lip) in the corner is a very fine raised ridge called "the wire". This imparts a fine single crease to the very corner of the sole edge. Don't grind or polish this off. "Kit cutting", cutting the ends of these irons--or more accurately dressing them to suit with various kit-files-- the sole substance and edge "wire" was a highly skilled shoemaker's task, not everyone was good at cutting kit.

See Salaman's 'Dictionary' for more details on this. And DW is right. If you're only going to "collect" or display them, clean and bright is fine, but if you want to use them....

[amuckart]

Al, DW, thanks for the responses.

I do eventually want to be able to use these, at least that's what I bought them for. I didn't pay so much for them that I'll cry if I can't. I don't want to take a buffer to them because that'll round them off too much but some 3m micro abrasive sheet and appropriate blocks of MDF should do the trick.

Al, I'm not sure what you mean by the "wires". Do you have a picture of a good one that shows what you mean?

Here's some before shots of what I got. First some of the good ones:

I ran them through the electrolysis bath last night but haven't taken "after" photos yet. I'll do that this evening.

(Message edited by admin on July 20, 2009)

[amuckart]

Let's try that again. The board threw an error when I tried to post the pictures.
Some of the good irons before cleaning:

9845.jpg

Some of the worst rusted ones:

9846.jpg

The whole lot:

9847.jpg

[dw]

Alasdair,

I know you're on a different time than we are so I'll toss in my 2 cents and then Al can add the juicy bits.

Frankly, they are in pretty rough shape. I am not optimistic about imparting that polished surface to the faces without ruining the "details." In your first photo the collice dead center in the first row looks to have a little square "step" on the left hand side of the face. This is known as a "jigger step." It is next to the welt guard. I am not certain why this iron does not have a bottom or sole guard but generally a forepart iron will also have a "crease" next to the sole guard.

Some irons, such as the ones on either side of the center iron, have a crease--known as the "jigger crease" next to the welt guard as well as the crease next to the sole guard.

When used, the forepart iron with the jigger step leaves a "step" on the edge of the welt, and a proud "wire" on the edge of the sole.

The forepart irons that have creases next to both guards leave wires top and bottom of the sole edge. Personally I like this kind of iron best...if only because I can maintain it better.

The face (or belly) of a forepart iron is generally cut convex.

The jigger step and the creases are very important. When polishing the face of the iron you must not alter the convex shape of the belly nor cut away the jigger step...a real conundrum with irons that are well worn. The jigger step should be sharp and square.

When it comes to creases, if use or age or too vigorous a polish has made the crease too shallow, it can be cut deeper with a jeweler's saw and polished with stitcher cord coated with tripoli. It is a little (maybe a lot) harder to re-define the jigger step...which is why I say creased irons are easier to maintain.

But in order to reshape or refurbish irons...especially some of the rougher ones in your collection...you need a good set of jeweler's files as well as your micro-mesh abrasives.

For polishing, I usually cut a disc of sole leather and mount it on a mandrel that fits a Dremel tool. I run that up against some tripoli and polish the face of the iron.

Hope that all helps...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

(Message edited by admin on July 20, 2009)

[amuckart]

DW,

I'm not that optimistic either but I got these along with three usable pair of lasting pincers and a heel shave I can sell for twice what the job lot cost me, so I'm not out anything but a bit of practice if I can't make 'em usable They also came with a saw set, of all things but I've already got one of them.

Thanks for the hint about tools for working on these. My original plan was to recut the grooves very carefully with a sharp single-bevelled cold chisel, but I'll give the jewellers saw a go.

I'd never thought of putting a disc of soling leather in my dremel, that's a great idea.

Thanks.

[amuckart]

Here's a couple of quick "after" shots, post electrolysis and grey scotchbrite treatment. I didn't scrub the faces much.

These ones probably aren't recoverable short of basically remaking the whole tool:

9851.jpg

These ones may yet be saveable:

9852.jpg

The electrolysis seems to have worked extremely well on these by and large, especially given the state they were in initially. Even on the very rusted ones it's at least cleaned them up enough to read the makers' marks. A couple have no marks, one that looks like quite a rough casting and one that bears the hallmark grain pattern of wrought iron.

[chuck_deats]

Alasdair,
Nice tools, good find. Excellent job of cleaning them up. IMO, They all look usable with a little work to square up the corners with needle files and a little polishing. The metal is probably pretty soft. The worst looks much better than I would have expected from the rusted condition.
Chuck

[double]

Can someone please identify these lasting pliers. What is the correct name for this style of lasting pliers? I was told that these come in sets of three different sizes. Can someone please tell me who i can contact to get a set of these.

9885.jpg

[jkrichard]

Colin, I think you call those: "My Pliers," and I fully expect to find them in my toolbox tomorrow.

[bjohnsonleather]

Colin,
An old friend had a couple of them in different widths and called them Swedish pattern lasters. Not sure who is selling them new. FWIW, I bought a few odd ball pliers last fall from Keith Pommer in Worthing, South Dakota. I kind of recall he had some.

[dw]

Berg made that style of pincer famous. But there are several outfits in Germany producing them now. I have a three piece set with the brandname of Schein which I "inherited." The biggest of the three is the biggest pair I've ever seen, extremely useful especially for crimping/blocking, and no longer available.

MacPhereson's in Seattle is a Goetz representative and they carry this style of pincer...both the exact brand shown in your photo and the Scheins as well. Either one will do. The Scheins are chrome and more refined than those you have but those you have are good enough.

You also might be able to get them through O. Baltor...in LA, I beleive.

I don't think anyone has the three different sizes anymore.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[courtney]

Today I bought some tools and the guy who was selling them had some interesting stuff that he was selling very resonably, He had an old inseaming jack and more interesting but not needed by me, a brouging and gimping hand crank machine! If anyone is interested you should be able to find his contact info in craigslist san francisco, under shoemaking tools.
He was selling the lot cheap but I'm broke so I was able to just buy a few things. I'm sure I'll probably regret not getting everything.

(Message edited by courtney on September 02, 2009)

[tjburr]

I was hoping that someone could describe a tool a little better for me so I can try to build one.

Unfortunately it is in a picture in "Hand Made Shoes For Men" and I did not want to copy the picture due to copyright. So hopefully someone who has the book will recognize it or someone will recognize it purely by my description.

The item I am interested in is in the pictures on page 146.

In the picture the person is showing an example of stitching the welt. The last is sitting on a board, with what looks like a small board under the toe. somehow a strap is also being used, though I am not sure how from the picture and how tension is held (is there a hole in the board that the strap goes through?).

I also can not tell if there is a lasting pin, but It seems like it would help hold in place.

The whole setup looks like a table mounted or possibly lap mounted version of a last stand and looks interesting for shoes.

Unfortunately I can not tell from the picture much more than that. I can think of several ways to implement, and had considered making something like what is shown.

If I need to I can try to draw a picture of what I think it looks like, but I did not want to bias the design by my guesses.

Any information on the device would be greatly appreciated.

I must say that I see something new every time I look closely at the pictures in this book.

Terry

[erickgeer]

Terry,

I pulled out the book and checked out that page. I'll say I never noticed it before. My take on it is that it is a simple stand to display the inseaming, rather than an actual tool- someone should correct me if I'm wrong. The only reason I'd think otherwise is the maker continues to use it in other images.

Erick

[dw]

Terry,

I almost forgot this question...I'm guessing it is a board that sits on top of the knees, with a slot cut through allowing the cone of the last to sit in that slot. A drawdown strap would be thrown over the shoe and it would go through that slot on either side of the shoe. The "rest" on one side of the board supports the toe of the shoe. Because the board rests across both knees and can be turned in any direction, it is much easier to use than simply inseaming on one knee alone.

It looks to me that in the first photo, there is a piece of soling leather stuck under the cone of the last to prevent it from dropping down into the slot. I suspect this is to raise the shank and backpart so that it is level. I'm not sure. In the last photo the cone of the last is clearly down in the slot with the drawdown strap running on either side of the cone.

If I'm correct, I can see that it would be a practical and inexpensive solution to the awkwardness of trying to inseam on the knee. Of course if your lasts have a thimble...as most US made lasts do...one of Dick Anderson's new lapjacks would work nearly as well. I inseam all packers and above the ankle shoes on the lapjack rather than an inseaming jack simply because the inseaming jack will bend the tops and create wrinkles and creases.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[dw]

PS...on page 158 you can see that same board in action a little more clearly. In the first photo you can see the drawdown strap running into the slot. and again in the last photo (lower right).


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[erickgeer]

DW,

I see it, Leather for the back of the last to rest on, slot for the cone to rest in and allow the draw-down strap and a shelf for the vamp to rest on. Probably not a pin for the thimble as there wouldn't be any variation for heel height.

Erick

[romango]

DW,

I don't see Dick Anderson's new lapjacks on his web site. Do you have a photo?

[dw]

Rick,

You wouldn't. He and I collaborated on a new design and he finished the first one and sent it to me just before the WF shindig. I'll try to get a photo sometime this weekend. But it's slick and maybe gonna get slicker...we talked about ways to make the next ones even better.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[romango]

Sweet! Maybe he'll be at the AGM with a prototype.

[dw]

Rick,

Well, I hope I'm not speaking out of turn when I say that I don't think Dick is going to be at OSV.

Nevertheless, here is a couple of photos of the prototype:

10188.jpg

10189.jpg

The prototype was a little bit short for me. Dick and I talked about may making it so that height is adjustable.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[tjburr]

Erick, DW and Rick

Thanks for all the responses. I missed the fact that there was other pictures. And the one on page 158 as DW points out, does show better the construction.

The feedback so far also gives me some insight into how to make it work better. I was away from the computer yesterday, and appologize for this message being so long...sort of making up for missing replying to all the other posts I will have to take some time to mull over the feedback.

I took a quick look at other pictures and I also seen on pg 149 it looks like the back of the cone is supported by the board itself and two pieces of leather keep it in place. I did notice that the examples in this book did not show a thimble in the last.

In looking at a design for myself based on the HMSFM book and the comments above, I would want to make a few modifications.

The first modification would be a way to change out the toe block, or raise it some how, to make it adjustable for the exact last.

The second modification would be to put a pin that is adjustable somehow to fit into the last thimble. The reason I was thinking this would need to be adjustable was if I wanted to do a shoe that was a little taller in the quarters.

My guess would be there would be limits as to how tall a shoe could be made on this (maybe ankle high), before everything got too high above the lap to work on.

I was however curious about a few things.

Would it be better to use a round base wood so that the wood could be held at any angle? For instance with a square wood holding the shoe at 45% would have one of the corners sticking in your stomach. The disadvantage would be that there would not be as much support across the knees and thighs.

Is there every any problems with using a dropdown strap and it rubbing against the upper leather. So far I have only used darker color leather and nothing too delicate, so I have not encountered a problem.

Also in using the block under the toe, I would think one would want to put something over the wood to make it not rub on the toe. Would this part be a problem? Would it almost burnish or leave a slight compression indention without something between the wood and upper?

The leather under the cone that DW pointed out...would this also protect the cone from moving forward in the hole against the wood hole edge? I expect that one would have to think about the same considerations as the toe block.

I will draw up some design ideas to post.

I was particularly looking at this design over one of Dick's inseaming stands since I am short on space. I have looked at his stands a number of times since they look quite well made and seem like they would work wonderful, but I have some big space limitations. It's timely to hear of his lapjack though! How exactly is the above lapjack used? Does the user hold the handle between the legs, maybe supported by the chair seat, or does the handle extend to the floor.

Terry

[dw]

Terry,

Well, you're probably right about what is shown in the photos. I was just describing what I thought it looked like after giving it a quick study.

However, either way I don't understand the reason that the slot is not cut all the way to the edge. That's the way i would do it. I'd take a size seven last or maybe a nine and figure how wide it was through the cone if viewed from behind. Then I'd cut that slot about half an inch wider. and long enough to accommodate the cone of a last maybe as long as the cone of a size 10 last.

I'd cut a strip of somewhat soft leather...like a lining leather...and tack it closely along the edge of the slot. Then I'd roll the leather over itself and pull it under, tacking it in place. This would create a soft rolled pad which the sides of the shoe could rest on when the backpart was in the slot.

The forepart rest looks like it is covered in the photos and I would not only cover it...again, with a soft leather...but I would also cut it somewhat concave to aid in holding the forepart steady.

You could cut the base board with rounded corners...or round if you are really determined...but I don't think the corners would be any real problem.

Mind you, I'm speculating...imagining...designing this in my head even as we converse.

Here is a quick drawing of the contraption as view from above.

10195.png

The lapjack...och, laddie yer missin' out...the lapjack is meant to stand with the wide end on the floor and held between the arches of your feet. Yes, you have to be in the traditional shoemaker's position--seated.

The last, has a thimble in the cone. It fits on the spindle/pin at the narrow end of the jack. A drawdown strap is thrown over the last and held with one of the feet (not too far off the ground). The forepart of the last rests on one knee or the other. It is a very stable configuration and allows one to hammer against a firm foundation...or peg or nail or whatever.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member