Tools of the Trade

[amuckart]

Also, just FYI, Edwin Hale and I have chatted about this, and he is seeing if Colin Barnsley can have some made, in the 'proper, old fashioned way.' This may be a better knife than what Barr will make, but the price is likely to be 5 - 7X what Barr seems to want to charge, even if Colin's knife comes to fruition.

All due respect to Mr Hale, but I would take his assertions on other craftsmen's products with a grain of salt. He is ever the salesman and nothing anyone else makes will be as good as what he can sell you

For this tool I'd personally go for something made by someone who makes woodworking tools over leather working tools, but any competent blacksmith should be able to make a working one without a problem.

[romango]

I have and have used all the specialty tools for this purpose. I end up using an Xacto type knife... specifically an Olfa snap off blade 300.

I think the promise of the specialty tool is to allow someone without (free hand) technique to get a good result.

I've found the tools did not deliver on their promise but did teach me what I needed to do with a free hand blade.

I hope this does not sound harsh. It's just what I experienced.

[dearbone]

Matthew,

I recently bought two really good Tina flat blades(knives) in sizes:23cm x 1cm and another 23cm x 1.5cm from Warkov that i am very pleased with,as a matter of fact that's all i have been using for almost most work including preparation of the rabbet.They also carry curved blades.
www.warkov.com
1-800 655 8619
Phone: 204 943 3753

Nasser

[dw]

Well, just to provide a little balance here...I began life cutting my channel and feather freehand. And I got pretty dern good at it.

I was cutting the channel at a slant toward the feather such that when inseaming was complete the insole leather would close back down over the top of the stitches. It's a good technique but it also pretty much precludes any attempt to hole the insole and derive any benefit from doing so.

When I read/learned about holing the insole I began cutting, then grooving, vertical channels. Making the transition was no big deal.

But the first time I saw an American Channel knife I knew it was the right tool for the job...even though it was originally designed as a harnessmaker's tool.

It will cut a vertical channel a pre-set depth at a preset distance from any edge.

Now, not only does the feather (and the channel) want to be cut wider in some places than others, but if the holdfast is not a perfect width all around and the channel not a consistent depth, no one will ever be the wiser.

Unless one "pops" stitches while inseaming, of course; or the insole cracks prematurely because it has been nearly cut through.

All these issues can be addressed...as I said in my initial post and as Rick reiterated...simply by exercising due diligence. And to expand that thought even further...IIRC, it was once said that a pair of shoes could be made with nothing but a knife and a fork.

So fancy tools are not at all necessary. But then you can use a hammer to drive a screw too...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[mrt]

Hi,
Thank you all for offering thoughts/advice and resources to a newbie. I'm looking forward to the day when I can have preferences re: tools and techniques for cutting a good holdfast. In the meantime I'm just hoping (and practicing) to maintain a nice clean cut that's not too deep or inconsistent.
Thanks again,
MT

[lancepryor]

We're still hoping to get one or two more expressions of interest in the last knife....

if anyone is interested, please speak up!

Lance

[john_ralston]

Can someone point me in the right direction for a turorial on how to sharpen the sole trimmer? I assume I just pull it off the main shaft, mount it on the vertical jig and slowly run it into the grinding wheel. It is on an older Sutton/Landis 2000

Or, would it be easier to buy a new carbide one and forget about sharpening?


(Message edited by john_ralston on September 17, 2010)

[john_ralston]

Here are the pics:

11609.jpg

11610.jpg

[tmattimore]

Wearing saftey glasses place the cutter on the shaft. Check your saftey glasses again. Lean the rod foward so the cutting wheel grinds the surface evenly. The trick is getting the same amount of grind on each tooth which will come with practice.
I use carbide cutters but beware they can take off a lot of material real fast, They can also cut down to the bone real fast. They can also pull a boot out of your hands and toss it around if they bind up. They should turn faster then most steel cutters to get the best effect so you may have to change your motor pulley.
Tom

[dearbone]

John,

Tom's observation and tips are fair assessment of this machine,i was shown how to use and sharpen sole trimmers long ago,it will be very helpful to see a demo or better yet someone show you,Each tooth is sharpen once(one contact with the grind wheel) and than the next and the next,I had a boot tossed to the ground so hard once while i was trimming it,i was afraid to go near the trimmer for few days, until i was told the reason why it happened which was the sole was not trimmed evenly,smooth by hand knife before it went to the trimmer,Also a light contact between sole and the trimmer and more caution when timming the toe and the heel.

Nasser

[dw]

I broke down some years ago and got a carbide trimmer for my most used size--14. I've never had to sharpen it and it still cuts really well.

That said, Nasser has the right of it--each tooth should be brought into contact with the flat side of the grindstone once and with the same pressure as previous and subsequent teeth.

When I trim outsoles I wet the edge of the sole. That makes "grabbing" a little less likely simply because the trimmer is working less hard. It also helps to "set" the wires. Trimming dry tends to rip the fibers in the wires and the result can be uneven or almost non-existent.

I also learned ...the same way as everyone else--having the boot/shoe ripped from my hands...that the motion of the shoe is more critical to whether the blade grabs than any other factor. The shoe must never be turned into the blade as so often happens as we go around the toe. Even though you're coming around a narrower radius the edge of the sole must still be "stroked" past the trimmer just as it is when trimming along the sides.

Of all the people interested or reading this or who have experience with the trimmer section, I've never run across anyone who had a shoe ripped out out their hands on the "flat" unless they were pretty new to the trimmer section...it was always on the toe. Why? because as mentioned above, we are "pulling"/"stroking" the shoe past the blades when we trim the medial and lateral sides. Analyze your movements when trimming the sides and apply that to trimming the toe.

Finally, the thing I love about the old Landis 400 Line finisher (the racing model...with the billiard ball gear shift handles) is that the trimmer section runs very fast, the grit section a little slower, and the brush section slowest of all. For good reason in each instance.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[frank_jones]

John

I concur with all the above. In particular the major reason for losing control of the boot/shoe on the forepart cutter is certainly that the shoe must be presented in a stroking action. Don’t think of it as a cutter, think of it as a very sensitive fine trimming device. But back to your request about sharpening the cutter, rather than using it.

Again to add to the excellent comments already made, it is critical to sharpen the blades evenly. One tip which might help is always ensure you only sharpen each blade just the once. With a sixteen blade cutter it is so easy to sharpen seventeen blades or more. Count each one as you sharpen them and stop at sixteen.

Frank Jones
frank.jones@noblefootwear.com

[tjp]

Hi,

I found a used last lathe from one machine dealer. The dealer said it is made in Germany in 1920's and it is made by Moneus. The cutterhead etc. have been stored inside and I expect them to be in better shape.

Obviously it needs quite a lot of care before it can be used. What do you think, is it a challenge worth taking? Do you know the brand?

-Tjp

11699.jpg

[gshoes]

WOW! That is simply amazing. What state did you locate this item in?

Geri

[tjp]

Hi,

The last making lathe is located in Scandinavia.

[last_maker]

where are you in relation to Scandinavia? Will it take a ton of money to ship to you???

[the_joat]

I just found this and thought someone might find it interesting.

The Museum for Old Techniques has been working on a database system named ID-DOC. it is an online aid to help with the identification of unknown technical objects, i.e. hand tools. It is a work in progress, and there is much still to do. The English and French sections are pretty minimal. A little more work has been done on the Dutch section. Here is a link to the shoemakers section.

<http://www.mot.be/w/1/index.php/iddoc-crafts-en.shoemaker?language=en>

[antons]

@ Erick Geer Wilcox et all

I'm a Dutch Clogmaker. To my suprise I found in the Golding Volumes that the knive used for lastmaking is the same as for clogmaking. You can buy them here in Holland for about 30-60$. If you are interested, I can collect some and send them to the USA.

Maybe this is also the answer Marlietta is looking for.

[trefor_owen]

Anton/Erick:
I think you'll find that a Last making knife has a narrow blade and little rake (curve) to the handle. I have photos but also there is one pic in the Laszlo Vass book on mens shoes.
A last knife will be simmilar to European clog knive but ours here in Wales (and the rest of the UK) have a much deeper blade and are part of a set of 3 knifes.
I'm happy to fwd photos to you direct rather than impose them on the rest of the group if you are interested.
Trefor, Clocswyr, Cymru.
clogs@globalnet.co.uk

[antons]

@ Trefor/Erick.

This is knife we use.

12475.jpg

You can make a pair of lasts in 2 hours with this knife in skilled hands.

[amuckart]

Anton, Trefor,

I'd love to see photos of the knives you're each talking about. I have been looking into getting a stock knife and a set of clogging knives made by a blacksmith here, but the cost so far has been prohibitive.

I've got some fairly detailed pictures of the knives that Jeremy Atkinson (another UK clogmaker) uses but I'd be interested in seeing more.

[jon_g]

Photos are definitely not an imposition, I'm sure many of us would like to see them.

Jon

[trefor_owen]

Having been severley chastised by Admin for previously uploading photos of clog lasts which were 'too big', I will consider putting up some knife shots at some point...
But in the meantime may I suggest if you have a few monents spare you go to:-
www.britishpathe.com;
enter clogmaking in the main search box and you will be led to 2 clips, 1 of clogmaking in Stirling, Scotland, plus a clip of Dutch makers working.
There is a side bar of "related videos", and whilst the Scottish clogmaking clip is running, there appears a further (scroll a bit) film in this time called Clogs, and is of English making.
These 3 clips show the knifes, both UK and Dutch, in action.
The UK ones are exactly as I use and are used in the same way I use them.. ie I cut down trees, split the logs with a wedge and beetle and start from there.. and have done so for the last 32 yrs..

Jerry Atkinson, sometimes trading as Kite Clogs, is an intriguing guy, sadly now only part time (despite what he claims!) and also not the only clogmaker (despite what his website claims!).
His book on clogmaking has recently been reprinted by Shire Publications in the UK and is somtimes on ebay or amazon.

It often seems the world and its granny claim to be the only clogmakers still working.
By counting in the 2 working museums which demo clogmaking (Colne Valley Museum Golcar Yorkshire and St Fagans Cardiff Wales), and the odd shoe makers who do the occaisional pair (ie Galloway Boot and Shoe Company - google them) plus the part timers (Jerry), 2 factories (ie Walkleys Factory - google them) and us full timers, you can just scrape 17 in the whole UK..
and as UK clogs are different to the rest of the worlds (ours fasten most others are slip ons, flip flop type sandals - Geta in Japan, or over shoes), that makes 17 in the World;
and with only about 5 fulltime, its a bit scary and yes I am trying to train - I had 2 youngsters do a weeks residential earlier in the month....
I used my knifes in Washington DC 2yrs ago when invited to the Smithsonian Institues Folklife Fest as a craftsman demonstrator.. so a number of US citizens saw then in use much to their alarm..
think of it .. being that close to the White House with such a tool - one of the jokes while demonstrating is to ask for a French King. (use your imagination!)

Plus for all the shoemakers, with a little diligence there can be found a film called Boots and Shoes...
Trefor

[admin]

Trefor, et al,

First, you were not "chastised" for posting photos that were too big...you were advised (privately) that posting photos that were too big, three posts after Admin had taken the time to remind everyone in that thread that there are rules in place to make this an enjoyable experience for everyone, was a breach of good faith, if nothing else. And that ignoring such advice especially in such close proximity to your own, suggested that you had not read those rules or did not care to be bothered with them.

Admin's remarks were not personal and all things considered as gentle as they could be. and again, private.

What is more, Admin offered guidance not only on how to post photos but the guidelines for photo size and offered suggestions as to how to accommodate the rules with no expense to yourself.

Administering a forum such as this requires a fair amount of time. Like many HCC activities it is done on a volunteer basis. And not always perfectly, I will be the first to admit. But the PM you received (note that you were not "chastized" publicly)was sent as much to suggest that if Admin can volunteer his time to "clean up" regularly and, as much as possible, make things better for every member, it is not unreasonable that new members be expected to "Read the Rules" and make every effort to not make things even more difficult and time consuming for those who work behind the scenes.

Since you have taken this dispute public, I have responded publicly. It might be noted that in the rules posted under "Topics"> "POSTING GUIDELINES All Users Read This"> one of the rules is

DO NOT take disagreements with Administration or the moderators of the Crispin Colloquy public. All complaints, suggestions or dissent should be restricted to private messaging or email. Failure to abide by this protocol will result in immediate suspension.

'nuff said!


Emmett

(Message edited by admin on November 30, 2010)

[gshoes]

Nice videos on clog making. It would be nice to see what knives like that would be sold for today.
Geri