Pattern making

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erickgeer

Re: Pattern making

#51 Post by erickgeer »

Angel, welcome!
While I have not personaly used a vacuum system, I have seen the results. As far as I know it is typicaly used more in design - where one would want to see very quickly how a style will look on a particular last. A light weight plastic is softened by a heating element, and then draped over the shoe last, Then a vacuum is used to pull the still soft plastic tight to the last. The result is a perfect representation of the last that style lines can be drawn onto. From there, you can manipulate the plastic to create flat patterns for the components.

Larry,
If you have a picture to post of a vacuumed form, I second it - they are very cool to see.

The tape method is nice because there is no specialized equipment required (other than the last) to create a pattern. I only know two books that discuss the tape method - The Pattern Cutters Handbook, and the Shoe and Boot Designing manual, by George Koleff(tape is only discussed as an alternative in Koleff).

If anyone else knows other tutorials I would love to know about them. ShoeTrades online sells a book titled "Pattern Cutters Handbook" - Is that the same one Frank Jones had at the Meeting?

Forgive me, I'm feeling very talkative. I missed most of the HCC meeting, but I had a great time on Saturday night.
I have to say good night now.

Erick
tomo

Re: Pattern making

#52 Post by tomo »

Hey Angel,
welcome to the CC. Your english is way better than my ...Image spanish(????) I'm interested in making riding boots, so don't feel as though you're the only one here, we have guys (and I'm including the ladies here when I say guys) doing all sorts of fantastic things.

DW that manual came through just fine. Thanks heaps. I can see my Adler needs some corrective surgery on it though.Image
More power to y'awl.
T.
angel

Re: Pattern making

#53 Post by angel »

Hi, DW, Erick and T,
Thanks for your warm welcome.
In fact, my mother languaje is spanish. I live in Patagonia Argentina, more exactly in San Martin de los Andes, a small town on the Andes mountains. A nice place to live, and for you all to visit. We have skiing in winter, good fishing in summer, and not so good bootsmakeing (me:-)) all year round.
Thanks for the explanation on vacuum systems. Now I get it.
About tape mask flattening, I'd like to see what these authors explain, but, unfortunatly, have no access to their books.
Is it possible to get scans? or are they copyrighted?
I'll keep in touch as I go on working in a new pair of riding boots. Your advice would be very very valuable.
Thanks and best regards,
Angel
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Re: Pattern making

#54 Post by plugnickle »

Angel,
I will paraphase Koleff's technique and post it for you.

Steve
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Re: Pattern making

#55 Post by plugnickle »

Use masking tape that is 18-25mm wide. Begin by covering one side of the last. Start 10mm past either the toe or heel centerline and follow the feather edge, taping 10mm past the center line of the opposite end of the last. Short lengths may be necessary to cover some places of the last. Repeat with the subsequent strips, overlapping half of the width of the preceeding strips. Cover the other side of the last. Repeat, applying two layers to both sides of the last.

Mark the center of the cone as point A. Mark the center of the toe as point B. Sight a straight line between marks A & B and make a mark at the lowest part of the last. Name the mark point C. Mark the center of the top and bottom of the heel, drawing a line between the two points.

Mark the outermost point at the inside joint line, as well as the outermost point at the outside joint line. Using a flexible straight edge, draw a line between the two points. The point where the centerline and the joint line converge is the "vamp point".

The heel height can be figured as (1/5 short heel)- 6mm, or 1/5 "standard last length". Standard Last Length is measured from the base center line of the heel to the centerline of the toe.

The design is then drawn on the outside half of the last for the left foot.

Use a knife to carefully cut the tape along the center line of the heel and toe centerlines. Carefully peel both taped sections from the last.

Press the sections onto pattern paper, starting at the center working outward. Slits may have to be cut at the heel and toe areas to prevent distortions. Smooth the tape against the paper. When cut out, these forms represent the surface of the last.

Place the outside section on a sheet of paper and draw around it. Place the inside section over the first drawing, making sure that the the lines of both sections meet at the toe and the center of the back curve and the heel area at the feather line. Draw around the inside shape. Mark the center of the two lines along the center front line and along the back curve. Use the outside line along the feather edge. Cut along the newly created lines. This is the "meane form", and is ready to have the design transferred to it.

If I have mis-interpreted Mr. Koleff's thoughts, let me know so that I can make the necessary corrections.

Steve
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Re: Pattern making

#56 Post by frank_jones »

Erick Geer Wilcox

Sorry I missed you in Delavan. I publish and sell the Pattern Cutter’s Handbook, please email for details.

I would like to pick up and comment on your question of 27th October regarding the use of vacuum forming. First, if you have access to somebody such as Larry to tell you about it, and more important SHOW you first hand, you would be well advised to take up his offer. However, I do have some further comments.

Vacuum forming first started to be used in shoemaking, originally merely for pattern cutting, in the early 1960’s. Interestingly this was also around the same time that some people started to use masking tape as a medium in pattern cutting. Today most full-time pattern cutters use masking tape to produce a “last skin” which they can flatten as the starting point for producing upper patterns.

It is hard to be specific but I would say that today less than ten per cent of pattern cutters use vacuum forming for this purpose, but with 3D digitising systems becoming cheaper and Computer Aided Design systems increasingly easier and faster to use, this could change. I regularly see vacuum forming machines in footwear companies but they are mainly used by designers because they can sketch out ideas “in the round” without leaving marks on the last.

The process of pattern cutting relies on taking the “skin” from a very complex curved shape - the three dimensional last, then flattening it (into two dimensions) such that when patterns produced from it are sewn together, they fit well over the original 3D last. The thing to remember is that it impossible to flatten the “skin” without introducing distortion, in exactly the same way as happens when flat maps are produced of the whole earth. The skill of flattening the “skin” is to be aware of the degree of distortion and where it occurs. Then in using this information in such a way that you still produce uppers that fit and look good when lasted.

When used for pattern cutting purposes the vacuum-formed plastic shell has to be flattened but normally after cutting in two down the backseam and along the centre line down the front of the last. Flattening is not easy to do and almost always the pattern cutter has to cut slits into the shell. If these slits open up on flattening, as they mainly do, this means the area of the pattern is bigger than it should be. In short, the flattening of a plastic shell is hard to control.

The one reason why masking tape has become the main medium for producing the inside and outside forme from the last, is it is easier to flatten a shell made of masking tape than it is a plastic one. The taping procedure has been described by Steve Harris above. I would like to make one or two comments.

It is best if the tape is not too wide. Ideally 12 mm to 15mm, because it lays flatter over the curves of the last without wrinkling. This is especially critical for high heel lasts because of the extreme curves. It is important that the shell produced is strong enough to be peeled off the last without being stretched or coming apart. Every part of the upper last surface should be covered with at least 3 or ideally 4 layers of tape. There are many ways of doing this but the diagrams here show a well proven method of taping the last.

Getting started
3295.jpg


fig 1


Starting second layer
3296.jpg


fig 2


Lasted taped and trimmed
3297.jpg


fig 3


The upper sections can be drawn on the shell before it is removed from the last but most pattern cutters do this later at the stage of producing the “standard”. Once complete the shell is trimmed just below the top of the cone and around the feather edge. Then the shell is cut in two down the back curve and down the front. The next step is to remove one side of the shell and press it onto pattern paper as Steve describes. Often it is best to flatten each half shell with no slits at all if possible, for the reason given above. Before removing the other side, mark the half already flattened as “inside” or “outside”. Then remove and flatten the other side onto pattern paper, again marking which it is.

This approach will produce an inside forme and an outside forme with wrinkles in them. These wrinkles occur because you are distorting the shape by flattening it. The beauty of masking tape shells is that they will only stretch very slightly, meaning the measurements are rarely bigger than those on the last. Where they wrinkle, the shape is smaller by the amount of wrinkling. Now it is not scientific but any shoemaker can make a very good judgement on whether the amount of shrinkage of the area/length represented by the wrinkles, will be compensated for in the stretching of the upper at lasting at that specific location. In effect the wrinkles provide the shoemaker with the data he needs to manage the distortion inherent in the 3D to 2D then back to 3D process described above. In many way this is one of the most important thing to achieve in upper patterns.

If anybody is interested, I will come back again with comments on the process of producing the mean forme, which is the next step.

Frank Jones
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erickgeer

Re: Pattern making

#57 Post by erickgeer »

Frank Jones

Thank you for the explanation of the difficulties with vacuum formed patterns. I wonder if there are particular ways of dealing with the plastic, is it more suitable for creating patterns for shoes that have multiple pieces, such as the oxford, derby or "trainer" and maybe bypassing the mean forme altogether?

Thank you for your explanation of taping the last. I use this method with good results. If you continue this discussion, could you touch on the draft lines and the when and how of their use in the mean forme?

I've got to get going as it is getting late.

Erick Geer Wilcox
riotgeer@ameritech.net
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Re: Pattern making

#58 Post by lancepryor »

Frank:

Since we're on this topic...

I've been told that Lobb Paris produces a plastic shoe for the first fitting of their bespoke shoes. Do you have any idea if they do this with a vacuum-forming process, or some other mechanism?

Thanks,
Lance
angel

Re: Pattern making

#59 Post by angel »

Frank and Steve,
Thank you very much for your comments and explanations.
I haven't still have the time to test all the procedures on a last, to see if I can descifrate all the steps.
In fact my biggest problem has been to flaten the mask, since I was cutting the vamp by the sides, so as to get the pattern of the front feet part of a riding boot. And there is much problem with double curvature. I couldn't figure where to cut slits so as not to have the leather loose or too stretched.
It seems that front-back trimming would give flatter surfaces on the mask.
See you later,
Best regards,
Angel
Sharon

Re: Pattern making

#60 Post by Sharon »

D.A.
My 4th grade daughter is doing a presentation on how colonial shoemakers made shoes. Although she's found much information "about" shoemakers, she wants to do a demonstration in class and we've not found any details that would help her. Do you have any suggestions?
Sharon
Lisa Cresson

Re: Pattern making

#61 Post by Lisa Cresson »

Sharon --

First thought is Stepping Through Time ISBN 9070104469 from David Brown Bookseller in Connecticut. 860-945-9329

Other thought are: some old Crispin Colloquy reprints of postings of the diary of a colonial shoemaker and some instructions on making a turnshoe. Is John Baily-something still the librarian?
And then, some of Marc Carlson's pages might point in the right direction. Have you emailed him?

And then there is Glenn Leisure - down in Virginia I think.
He is pretty colonial. Or maybe Al Saguto can offer some infomration in an email that would fascinate the class?
Lisa Cresson

Re: Pattern making

#62 Post by Lisa Cresson »

On the patternmaking front, there is one method that has not been approached on the forum. At Carl Litche's I saw the vacuum forming around a last. Plastic could get a bit brittle in spots. And have used the taping method, but your tape quality can be a factor leading to success or frustration.

But the one method not discussed on the forum is the method of forming canvas over the last after applying rubber cement. Stretches just a bit, works like a charm, little fray. Try 8 oz weight artist grade ARCHIVAL, to boot. Use the bias and WOW. And then there is the duct tape method; and the heavy aluminum foil method. . .

;-)
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Re: Pattern making

#63 Post by jenny_fleishman »

Mean forme asymetry...I'm working my way through Frank's pattern making book, and using the masking tape method. I am wondering what the purpose is of averaging much of the shape of the outside and inside halves of the mean forme patterns, rather than leaving them asymetrical, just as they come off the last. Does averaging actually improve the fit of the upper, or is it more for the economy of production?
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Re: Pattern making

#64 Post by danfreeman »

Averaging the inside and outside formes to produce a mean forme improves everything--if you are using unaltered stock lasts. It hastens patternmaking and improves the symmetry of the finished shoe, especially in the most symmetric, "boxy" factory lasts.
When lasts are altered for a custom fit, however, they get farther and farther away from the symmetrical "factory" lasts, and at some point along this progression, it becomes necessary to resort to a standard based on both inside and outside formes, to produce patterns which will make a good-looking, balanced shoe or boot.
Lasting, and fit of the uppers onto the last, though, are more affected by the springing or deadening of the formes when the standard is being designed.
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Re: Pattern making

#65 Post by jenny_fleishman »

Thanks, Dan. Glad to hear this as I just finished making an asymmetrical pattern on one of my lasts last night! Could you elaborate on what "springing" and "deadening" are? Won't toe spring already be in the pattern since I used the masking tape method?

Jenny
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Re: Pattern making

#66 Post by frank_jones »

Jenny Fleishman

Apologies for not posting a reply sooner. A lot on right now.

You ask “what the purpose is of averaging much of the shape of the outside and inside of the mean forme patterns”. There are several points to make :-

1. The process of ‘recording and flattening the skin of the last’ is complex. The big problem is one is trying to distort the area and shape as little as possible whilst knowing that it is impossible to flatten the inside and outside forms without some distortion.

2. The only reason for producing what is called the Mean Forme is to retain all the shape and area information on one piece of card because it is easier to work with a flat shape rather than two bumpy pieces of card covered in masking tape. Although it is called a Mean Forme it is not a simple average of the inside and outside formes. If it was, you would be producing a ‘straights’ pattern. Usually the backcurve and much of the line from the top of the cone down to the toe is averaged. The feather edge of the mean forme contains the information from both the inside and outside forms. This is what enables the pattern cutter to produce left and right patterns.

3. The procedure is explained on pages 19 to 21 and is carried through to pages 35 and onwards, where it is applied to a pump shoe. (My apologies to other readers, but Jenny did say she was working through the book.)

4. You specifically ask - “Does averaging actually improve the fit of the upper, or is it more for the economy of production?” It enables the production of left and right patterns which do fit the last more accurately. You are right to suggest that part of the pattern cutter’s job in mass-produced footwear is to limit production costs. An important part of the role is to limit the amount of tooling costs whenever possible whilst still retaining an acceptable fit on the last and subsequently on the foot. This includes things like trying to standardise quarters and outside counters (the upper component not the stiffener) by having for instance one double-sided die that can be turned over to cut all four quarters, rather than two for each style and size.

I hope that helps.

I completely agree with Dan’s comments but as you have discovered the more one explains things the more questions it generates. In particular what is meant by specific words

Frank Jones
frank.jones@shoemaking.com
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Re: Pattern making

#67 Post by jenny_fleishman »

Frank, I confess I'm not going straight through the book as I originally began, but skipped from the meane forme to the oxford pattern. And you're right about questions... Here's another one..

re the tongue pattern. Why make the tongue a seperate piece, if it is going to extend in a straight line from the vamp and not curve up with the instep, more in line with the quarters where the eyelets are? (Please excuse my primitive vocabulary once again.) I was expecting some sort of adjustment where the tongue and the vamp join to make the tongue rise up with the instep.

Jenny

P. S. Did you get my e-mail re certain pages of your book?
erickgeer

Re: Pattern making

#68 Post by erickgeer »

Jenny,

If you look at the Pattern Cutters Handbook, there is a section about springing and deadening patterns. When you speak of springing patterns it isn't necessarily in the same context as toe-spring of the last. There are manipulations of the flat pattern to do things like tightening the top-line, or causing the patterns to "mesh" for production cutting for material savings.

I've recently (in the past few weeks) begun using an aproximation of the "slotted paper" method of producing forms, which I'm pretty happy with. If you read that section, it explains that this method will produce a "sprung form" that has a greater curve at the vamp than you are likely to get from the tape method- this will produce a result that is easier to get tight to the last over the vamp, but may be a little more tricky to clear the leather over the feather edge.

Frank- please jump in if I'm mis-interpereting the book on the above.

For the tongue, I think the idea for a a separate pattern piece is more to do with interlocking the patterns when cutting, for material savings- the vamp "wing" can fit into the opening of the previous piece:
3922.jpg


I think it depends more on the shape of you pieces, the direction of stretch and how they relate to each other when you decide how or if you will separate the tongue from the vamp

Just one opinion,

Erick
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Re: Pattern making

#69 Post by jenny_fleishman »

Correction...earlier I meant to say that I skipped ahead in the Pattern Cutter's Handbook to the Gibson shoe (didn't have my book with me when I wrote the earlier message).

I just found the section on springing/deadening--a few pages at the end of the Boots chapter, at least in the edition of the book that I have.

Jenny
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Re: Pattern making

#70 Post by danfreeman »

"Springing" and "deadening" are imprecise terms; I can think of 5 meanings or usages for "spring" alone, and this includes only footwear. I think Erick defined it well; I would only add that springing often means moving the pattern above the centerline, deadening means moving it below. You will see why this produces the effects he describes. Both attempt to solve two problems (outside of economics): making a flat pattern from a compound-curved object without distortion, and making one-piece vamps. A separate tongue is cheaper to cut if you are mass-producing, and avoids the need to spring or deaden the pattern. But the smooth line of the uninterrupted vamp looks good, especially on blucher/gibson/derby style, and is a big part of the visual appeal of the western boot.

So we spring or deaden the forme as we make it, or the pattern as we extract it from the standard, to produce this effect. Dangers exist, however, so we do so as little, and as seldom as possible. The Pattern Cutters Handbook, which Frank Jones has brought us, suggests two good methods on p. 72-3, and the suspense-filled pivot point method on p.69-70, which I only use for fronts which are to be crimped--lasting alone won't get some of them down to the last. I use a sort of combination of these, plus a lot of "dead-eye deadening," both when making the formes and the patterns.
Cleverer patternmakers and lasters than I regularly produce better results than I can: I have seen their work. But I am improving.
erickgeer

Re: Pattern making

#71 Post by erickgeer »

I think an important aspect to these issues of pattern making, is in the types of leathers used- as well as the direction of stretch that you choose to cut in.

The leathers I like to use from Horweens, have a lot of give and compression abilities that lend themselves more to certain patterns than something more common -when you are starting out - like kid skin (waaaaay on the other end of the spectrum) for a light-weight cement-soled ladies shoe.

Jenny,
Some of the leathers that you have mentioned in other posts are garment leathers, that when dampened for lasting are going to stretch a whole lot- causing many of the careful calculations of pattern making to lose some of their effectiveness, unless you compensate for it. I confess I'm not very familiar with the dancing shoes you wish to make, which probably want to be very soft- you will need a very flexible sole. If you use a very stiff sole with garment type leathers, the forces of the foot moving are probably going to stretch the upper beyond wearability- and I suspect it would be similar result if you were to exchange for a very flexible sole with a firm upper.

I think I've gone a bit farther than I meant to, but it's a consideration for how you choose your upper material in conjunction with the construction and how you treat the pattern drafting.

It's probably not what you want to hear, but there is going to be a lot of trial and error for pattern manipulation and leather choice- like when you are making your lasts- you are going to make a lot of shoes until you get the result you are looking for, and it will be worth it!


Erick
erickgeer

Re: Pattern making

#72 Post by erickgeer »

As an addition to the last posts regarding springing, here is a sample I did where I did not crimp the vamp. The result isn't spectacular, but it does show a result where the vamp was cut and sewn to the quarters without crimping:
3924.jpg


Erick
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firefly

Re: Pattern making

#73 Post by firefly »

All,

I used DW's template to cut my quarters and quarter curve. It worked great. I think that I understand the principle or the relationship between the quarters and the spring in the crimped vamp.

I guess my question is directed more toward how I would have determined where and how to cut my quarters and quarter curve if I did not have this template?

Maybe my question is a patterning question??

Thanks,

Mark
j1a2g3

Re: Pattern making

#74 Post by j1a2g3 »

All,

I'm trying to make a tape pattern for a hiking boot using a one piece upper design with a gusseted tongue. The seam is on the inside of the boot.

I know how to make a pattern with tape for a shoe. I did make a shoe with a one piece upper and it turned out fine. The problem for me is when the design gets above the last and there isn't any tape.

My question is how do you design the pattern above the last form?
tomo

Re: Pattern making

#75 Post by tomo »

Hi Joel,
In the George Koleff book "Shoe and Boot Designing manual" he shows you how to do that type of work. There's more to it than you might think...

Some of the others could tell you what to do I guess, but I've found this book very helpful.
Larry Waller at Walrus Shoes sells it.
Paul Krause has used it a bit with good results.

More power to y'awl
T.
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