Top patterns/stitching

Share secrets, compare techniques, discuss the merits of materials--eg. veg vs. chrome--and above all, seek knowledge.
Message
Author
User avatar
dw
Seanachaidh
Posts: 5373
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 39 times
Been Liked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#301 Post by dw » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:26 am

Joel,

As far as I know most bootmakers pull the ends through to the lining side and then clip the ends very short before hitting them with a low flame...just enough to create two tiny (I mean almost invisible) beads of molten nylon. Then quickly, before the beads set, they flatten them with a fingertip. This not only flattens but it causes the molten nylon to adhere to the lining leather. It is also possible to purchase an "instant on" wood burning tool and just "cut" the threads close to the lining with the tip of the hot tool.

All this, of course, presupposes nylon thread is being used. When silk was all there was (and very beautiful for all of that) tying off (with a real knot) or backstitching may have been the only solution.

Some years back I developed a method of hiding the tag ends without burning as I didn't care for all the tiny black spots (looked like fly specks) that developed if the thread wasn't clipped short enough or the nylon was allowed to flame up. That method was posted here, and then again just recently...although I couldn't find it right off hand.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

marcell

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#302 Post by marcell » Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:27 pm

I have just my OWN gimping machine arrived! I enclose some pictures.. It has been made from an old Singer flat bed machine.
7306.jpg
7305.jpg
7304.jpg
7303.jpg
7302.jpg
7301.jpg

User avatar
dw
Seanachaidh
Posts: 5373
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 39 times
Been Liked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#303 Post by dw » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:39 pm

Marcell,

Well the sharp end of that looks just like the gimping tool that Dick makes. But it looks as if you have a clamping attachment that fits onto the needle bar. Or was the whole needlebar replaced?

Looks good in any case.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

User avatar
romango
8
8
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:40 pm
Full Name: Rick Roman
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#304 Post by romango » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:31 pm

Here's another medallion brogue pattern that I adapted from HMSFM. This graphic is 1/2 size. So, if you want to print it out, double it's size first. Or e-mail me and I'll send you the original size.

Image

User avatar
romango
8
8
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:40 pm
Full Name: Rick Roman
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#305 Post by romango » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:18 pm

Here's another medallion brogue pattern that I adapted from HMSFM. This graphic is 1/2 size. So, if you want to print it out, double it's size first. Or e-mail me and I'll send you the original size.
7797.jpg
7797.jpg (84.31 KiB) Viewed 1221 times

7796.jpg

jdow
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:15 pm
Full Name: Justin Dow
Location: Rosenberg, TX, United States

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#306 Post by jdow » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:41 am

I am in need of some suggestions on upper lining leather for cowboy boots. Can anyone give me some ideas of what is best to use? And where you can get it?

Thanks,

Justin

donrwalker
2
2
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:48 pm
Full Name: Donald Ross Walker
Location: Spring City, UT, USA
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#307 Post by donrwalker » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:00 am

Justin

I use something called maple lining from GH Leather in Houston, Tx most of the time. It is 3oz and fairly firm. It depends somewhat on what I am making the tops out of.

Don

User avatar
dw
Seanachaidh
Posts: 5373
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 39 times
Been Liked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#308 Post by dw » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:03 am

I use a "yellow calf" that I get from Corral leathers. I also like the veg tanned lining leather they carry although i generally like to toggle it before I cut it. It ends up looking like a high grade English Lining Kip but at about half the price.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

jdow
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:15 pm
Full Name: Justin Dow
Location: Rosenberg, TX, United States

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#309 Post by jdow » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:23 am

Thanks a bunch, I'm sure I'll have lots of other questions before its all said and done!

hatcreek42

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#310 Post by hatcreek42 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:06 am

Justin,

We use a few different lining leathers that all come from Garlin Neuman and cost under $2 a foot. For dress boots we usually use their "maple kidd", cowboy boots we use either their "r-36 calf" or the "saddle tan veg" linings. They rate along that scale in body and durability. The kidd is nice and clean, the saddle tan is tougher than all get out but still looks really good.

Hope that helps,

Jason

User avatar
romango
8
8
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:40 pm
Full Name: Rick Roman
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#311 Post by romango » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:00 am

I've made these boot uppers using a strip welt. This method results in a very thick side seam.

I'm unclear the best way to attach the pulls. There is no way I will be able to sew across the side seem. Is there any trick to this or do I just do the obvious and sew a short line on either side of the tab?

Image

User avatar
romango
8
8
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:40 pm
Full Name: Rick Roman
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#312 Post by romango » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:01 am

11145.jpg
11145.jpg (183.84 KiB) Viewed 1219 times

User avatar
dw
Seanachaidh
Posts: 5373
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 39 times
Been Liked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#313 Post by dw » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:33 am

Rick,

Just my opinion...but that strip of leather looks to be way too thick. Most of the time when I make a strip welt boot, I am using five-six ounce leather...upper leather. That might be eight ounce or bettr from the looks of it.

As for sewing it, a short stitch on either side would do, but I don't know why you couldn't stitch right across...provided the strip welt is trimmed close enough to the tops. On old boots sometimes you see strip welt and the stitches are not that far below the surface of the strip. It's a fine line but what isn't in this business?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

User avatar
romango
8
8
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:40 pm
Full Name: Rick Roman
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#314 Post by romango » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:44 am

It is thick, on the other hand, it looks great!

My Pfaff 491 will jump badly if I sew across a big bump. I might be able to control it but I don't want to risk messing it up.

I'll just sew on the sides.

luckyduck

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#315 Post by luckyduck » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:30 pm

Hey Rick,

Not claiming expertise, but I used light weigh welt leather on side seams and it was pretty much just what you are showing.

After forcing mine, I think your sewing up each side is the ticket. Maybe an up and back with a tiny circle at each end on both sides. Make it look like you did it that way on purpose to give a fancy stitching.

While my actual making skills are slow to improve, my recovering from mistakes is doing great and getting lots of practice.Image

Paul

User avatar
producthaus
3
3
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:52 pm
Full Name: Nick Hausman
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#316 Post by producthaus » Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:45 pm

Can someone describe the stitching finish on this upper edge, by the ankle? It looks like a piece of leather, with a very small cord inserted to give it the rounded form, is sandwiched between the upper and liner?

The stitching is also looped, rather then a straight chain.
11276.jpg
11276.jpg (49.17 KiB) Viewed 1219 times

artzend
7
7
Posts: 519
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:00 am
Full Name: Tim Skyrme
Location: Agnes Water, Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#317 Post by artzend » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:12 pm

Nick

It looks like a straight French Bound edge, both the raw edge of the upper, and one raw edge of the binding are placed together with the grain sides facing each other and stitched close to the edge, then the binding is turned inwards and glued to the flesh side of the upper. The lining is fitted, stitched down from the topline and the lining is trimmed back.

Tim
www.shoemakingbook.com

User avatar
producthaus
3
3
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:52 pm
Full Name: Nick Hausman
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#318 Post by producthaus » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:28 pm

Thanks Tim. How about the "loop" stitching - is that just done with a separate zigzag machine? Or can you somehow do it with a chain-stitch...?

artzend
7
7
Posts: 519
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:00 am
Full Name: Tim Skyrme
Location: Agnes Water, Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#319 Post by artzend » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:43 pm

Nick

I don't think it's a loop stitch, it looks more like a looser bobbin thread. When you turn it inwards it looks like that.

I could be wrong, so anyone else can jump in here.

Tim

timmyg

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#320 Post by timmyg » Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:07 pm

They most likely use a sewing machine with the wheel and knife that cuts off close to sewing and when rolled over and pounded the sewing pulls.

User avatar
noonan
1
1
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:00 am
Full Name: Tim Noonan
Location: Canton, Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#321 Post by noonan » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:36 am

Gents...this is plain French Cord, and the lining was stitched in with an under trimmer, gauged a little deeper than on a dressy shoe, hence the nice undercut lining. Used all the time in the factory.
Tim

paul
8
8
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:00 am
Full Name: Paul Krause
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Been Liked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#322 Post by paul » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:49 am

French Cord.

Thank you Tim.

I've always known it as French something.

So glad to hear the term in-use from a professional.

User avatar
producthaus
3
3
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:52 pm
Full Name: Nick Hausman
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#323 Post by producthaus » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:58 pm

How is the binding created? Can you call up a finder and ask for "binding", which is either the folded material or the cord which gives the rounded shape?

Or would this be upper leather that has been folded 180 degrees over a piece of cord?

Can anyone confirm Tim's thought that the longer stitch is a loose bobbin tension? I'd prefer to not adjust bobbin tension, as it seems a little advanced at the moment, but something I am willing to dive into if required.

(Message edited by producthaus on September 30, 2010)

lancepryor
7
7
Posts: 662
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:42 am
Full Name: lance pryor
Been Liked: 2 times

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#324 Post by lancepryor » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:16 pm

Nick:

For mine, I skive and fold a piece of upper leather about 1/2 inch wide; you need to skive it down to a pretty thin and consistent thickness. Then, you can apply contact cement, fold it, and gently hammer it. A very sharp knife is helpful in doing this. If you are doing a common color, like black, starting with a thinner type of black leather would make things a bit easier. You don't need to use a cord in the center though that is an option.

Hope that helps.

Lance

User avatar
producthaus
3
3
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:52 pm
Full Name: Nick Hausman
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#325 Post by producthaus » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:10 am

Could someone post a picture of a bespoke shoe with a top bead? I am sure I have seen it many times, but cannot picture it, and wanted to compare the differences to the french bound edge style.

Post Reply