Top patterns/stitching

Share secrets, compare techniques, discuss the merits of materials--eg. veg vs. chrome--and above all, seek knowledge.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
jake
7
7
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jake
Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#51 Post by jake »

Tex,

Is your Phaff a bottom roller feed? Do you ever have problems with leather binding under the roller while sewing tight curves?
texrobinboots

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#52 Post by texrobinboots »

Jake,
The answer to that is simple. Yes my Pfaffs are bottom roller gear driven feeds. And no I do not have trouble with curves. As the pattern maker I control the tight curves by making them the way I want them , instead of how the machine likes them. I prefer the gear driven Pfaffs and Singers over the 31-15 types....TR
bct

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#53 Post by bct »

Speaking for My Singer 110 W 124 bottom roller feed no problem!

"You Know My Name"
Tex Robin

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#54 Post by Tex Robin »

Jake,

Her name is Mary Shahan and she does custom stitching for bootmakers. Her web page is:
http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/mjsbootdesigns/index.html ....TR
User avatar
jake
7
7
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jake
Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#55 Post by jake »

Tex,

Thanks!

And if Mary reads The Colloquy, please accept my apologies.
rosynay

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#56 Post by rosynay »

All:

Mary's email address is not working.
My old one on her does not work either.
Check with Riley he has been contact with her since WF. She told Riley she is in the process of moving to Sequin.

RL
User avatar
jake
7
7
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jake
Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#57 Post by jake »

To All,

Received my "narrowed" upper roller presser foot from Bob Booth Company. The first photo reflects the needle centered on the wheel and close proximity to the wheel.
2217.jpg


This photo shows just how narrowed the wheel is.....maybe 1/8". It also depicts that is does indeed still presses on the bottom roller feed.
2218.jpg


I'll need a couple of weeks to give this presser foot a good evaluation. I'll be back!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
dw
Seanchaidh
Posts: 5830
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 204 times
Been Liked: 122 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#58 Post by dw »

Jake,

Just a quick note (as I head out the door)...I see what has been done to the presser foot (great photos, BTW...how do you get so close--what settings?) and agree that it might help.

But I also see that you are using a wide feed dog. That in itself might cause some problems with keeping the stitches a uniform length--for exactly the same reason (same theory)as a wider presserfoot would contribute to the problem.

I use a single feed dog and it's no wider than the presserfoot itself--less drag on the leather.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
User avatar
jake
7
7
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jake
Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#59 Post by jake »

D.W.,

Gosh.....I can't remember the settings. I did have the camera set to "macro" for the close ups. I also set the timer because I do remember the shutter speed was 50. Too slow for my shaky hands (coffee tremors).

Good point on the bottom roller feed. I will have to check if I can purchase a narrow wheel, or maybe Toby can narrow a wide one. I'll let ya know what I come up with.
User avatar
dw
Seanchaidh
Posts: 5830
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 204 times
Been Liked: 122 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#60 Post by dw »

Jake,

Oh! Now that you mention it and I look a bit more closely, I see that it is a feed wheel, not a feed dog. I thought you were using a 31 class machine. Sorry. Image

Heck, as much as I like the feed wheel machines (I have a 136w101 post machine and I wouldn't trade it for anything), I don't think you can do anything to control the consistancy of the length of the stitch...particularly when it comes to tight curves. My guess is that the narrowed presserfoot isn't gonna make much difference...there's simply no point in the cycle where the leather is not held fast.

But, that said, I'll be waiting on your assessment. It will be very interesting if it does make a noticable difference.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
paul
8
8
Posts: 1038
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:00 am
Full Name: Paul Krause
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Been Liked: 14 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#61 Post by paul »

Anybody out there familiar with making carved boot tops. I'm learnin' the hard way but thought I'd ask and see what comes up.
PK
User avatar
gcunning
4
4
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Gary
Location: Wichita Falls, TX, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#62 Post by gcunning »

All I know is when you turn them they better be dry. Your designs supposedly stretch it they are wet.
User avatar
dw
Seanchaidh
Posts: 5830
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 204 times
Been Liked: 122 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#63 Post by dw »

Paul,

Man, that's a whole 'nuther ball game! Like making full wellingtons or doing an eight part round braid of three passes with hand cut and beveled strings in lieu of the top bead.

Even though I've seen both old and new work, I've never had a lot of request for this kind of top, so I'm interested in the responses too. I did do one pair that were tooled by a saddlemaker (although I'm a pretty fair tooler...or was, once upon a time) at the request of the customer. I made the boots as a "hollywood" style and never had to turn the tops at all. But I have to say that without expert guidance, I'd be real cautious. Losing the tooling is just one of several possible problems associated with turning and lasting and treeing. I had heard that the spectacular pair that Alan Bell has in "Texas Boots" was tooled on the last.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Richard

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#64 Post by Richard »

I would like some help trying to solve this problem that has plagued me every time I make a pair of boots, that is, when I sew my counter cover on the boots my sewing machine seems to skip stitches. I thought it might be that the roller wheel on the sewing machine is sitting higher because of the counter. I have also made sure that the counter itself is skived very thin. Has any one else experience this problem? Any ideas would be welcomed on how to solve this problem.


Thanks,
Richard
Lisa Sorrell

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#65 Post by Lisa Sorrell »

Richard,
I use a post machine for stitching vamps and counters, and like all post machines I've used, it's temperamental. I've found that I need to keep it timed pretty slow. If I time it correctly by the book, it will stitch something that's thin OK, but not something thicker (like a counter and counter cover). If I time it a little slow it will stitch both.

Lisa
User avatar
dw
Seanchaidh
Posts: 5830
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 204 times
Been Liked: 122 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#66 Post by dw »

Lisa, Richard,

What do you mean by "time it a little slow?" Does that mean that the bobbin hook comes around a little later in the cycle than it is supposed to? I guess that would be "retarding" the timing and might be considered "slow." I have a 236 (?...not at the shop) and have never experienced that problem nor ever heard of that solution. but I'm interested in anything that seems to work.

I use the post to sew counters but use a 31 class machine to sew counter covers and vamps. I have sometime run across problems with sewing on the counter covers if the counters are still a little damp underneath (I pre-form them) and I've seen problems when I used all purpose and didn't let it dry long enough....usually overnight is best. Other than that, I'd have to look at the thickness of the counter as the culprit. Where does the skipping happen. Whenever I've had problems, it was always just when the roller wheel was moving from an area where you were sewing the edge of the counter cover to just the tops to an area where the counter cover was being sewn to the tops *and* the counter itself, too. The transition area, in other words. Until I got wise to it, and slowed down, I would get skips both going onto the counter underneath and coming off of it. Take a look at where your skips are happening and see if there's a pattern.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Lisa Sorrell

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#67 Post by Lisa Sorrell »

D.W.,
Yes, you set the machine so that the bobbin comes around a little slower than normal. When you do that, you also have to bring the needle bar down just a hair too, so that it hasn't pulled the thread completely up by the time the hook comes around. If I remember right, my owner's manual suggests timing the machine slow for heavier work. I don't think it's something I just made up. My machine is old and a little cranky, so I've always wondered if that's why I have to time it slow.

Lisa
Tex Robin

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#68 Post by Tex Robin »

DW,Paul,

I can tell you about the boots that Alan Bell made because I helped him with them in my shop. The tops were tooled before turning and then the bottoms were tooled on the last. There was no problem with the tops losing any tooling or stretching in the turning process, but he didn't put any finish on them till after they were turned. Alan is a master at tooling but I doubt that you could get him to do any of it any more. Or I for that matter. It is an art form that usually comes way too cheap...TR
User avatar
dw
Seanchaidh
Posts: 5830
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 204 times
Been Liked: 122 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#69 Post by dw »

Lisa,

Verrry interestink! Image Thank you. I'll keep that in mind.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
rileycraig
2
2
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Riley G.

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#70 Post by rileycraig »

Paul,

I am able to shed a little light on this subject. I have been carving leather for over 25 years, and have carved several boot tops and vamps, before I started making boots. The tops shoud be of a very good grade of veg tanned leather, no flanky stuff, and of 3/4 oz. The vamps can be a little heavier. You will not be able to get the depth and detail carving boot tops, as you would a ladies purse, or belt, but I'm sure you are aware of that. Before turning them, make sure they are dry, and then put a light coat of resolene or supershene (airbrush it on) after they are turned. This will help keep those fingerprints off the leather while you complete your boots. After you have finished the boots, apply two light coats of Saddle Lac to the tops. Voila! They should look great! The vamps should be tooled on the last...but you didn't ask about the vamps, did you? Sorry!

Hope this helps.

Good Bootmaking,

Riley
bultsad

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#71 Post by bultsad »

I own several machines (31 class, a few 110 class, a 51 class,29 class, adler 205 class) and the most common problem,aside from the machine being out of time, that I have found on skipping stitches is the shuttle being out of placement(too far away from) with regards to the needle.
This is an adjustment best made with the use of a manual.
Jim
fneiii

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#72 Post by fneiii »

Jim Covington had a saddlemaker tool a pair for him a few years back. The boots were made first as usual and then they were tooled. The saddle- maker designed some sort of a holder for the boots so they wouldn't move and he could tool them in the position he wanted. If anyone is interested I could get his name and information. I believe he explained the device in the Leather Crafters and Saddlers Journal.
Frank
fneiii

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#73 Post by fneiii »

The device was made by Dick Sherer,P.O.Box 385W. Franktown, Co. 80116. www.sherersaddlesinc.com
In the Journal he tells how to make the device. Don't have to turn the boots.
Frank
tmattimore

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#74 Post by tmattimore »

The only way I have found to adjust the needle clearance on a 31 class is to shim out the shuttle race. loosen the two screws holding it and slip a thin piece of paper behind it. Be careful too close and you may hook the needle with the shuttle point. I generally set it no closer then the width of the thread. The problem with skipping may also be not enough pressure on the roller or the roller may be too far away from the needle. I generaly look to timing first foot next and needle clearance last.
Tom Mattimore
paul
8
8
Posts: 1038
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:00 am
Full Name: Paul Krause
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Been Liked: 14 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#75 Post by paul »

First off, Tex I gotta tell ya, those are the sweetest pair of boots! I've always admired them. I did a before and after redesign a couple of years back and used a variation of the top pattern, and further changed it for the ones I'm working on currently.

I've been tooling for the past few years myself and can appreciate the problem with turning the tops after tooling. I remember that article in the Journal, now that you mention it Frank. Thank you. I should look it up and read it again.
The way I've done this in the past is alittle unorthodox and I suppose that's why I ask for tips. What I did was close the side seam between the vamp and counter as usual, with piping, then butted the rest of the seam and laced it with an "S" braid lace to close the leg. I only had to turn the foot, which created less stress on the top carving. Like I said, alittle unorthodox, and it leaves an ugly nub where the piping ends. So I'm open to other metheods.
Of course, what I'd really like is to make the 'hollywood' style as you mentioned DW. I have your class on my wish list.
Riley, I've used english kip for my tops and it's 2oz. or so. I'm not really crazy about it for carving, so I'm open to different leather next time. My biggest worry is water stains. The first pair I made this way, I finished them with Fiebings Antique Stain, then sealed it with super sheen, before I assembled everything. I had water stains by the time I lasted them. So yours and Tex's suggestion to finish them afterward is good to hear. I'll try that on this pair I'm doing now.
I'll spend some time later trying to figure out how to post pictures on the Gallery site. Gotta get back to Christmas orders.
Thanks everyone for the input.

PK
Post Reply