Lasting

Share secrets, compare techniques, discuss the merits of materials--eg. veg vs. chrome--and above all, seek knowledge.
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elfn
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Re: Lasting

#726 Post by elfn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:43 am

14538.jpg
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dlskidmore
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Re: Lasting

#727 Post by dlskidmore » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:09 pm

Well the "accepted norm for modern leather shoes" has the big toe in the middle, so those of us that want foot shaped shoes are all kind of winging it.

You did a good job, don't put yourself down too much. Those of us making shoes for just ourselves don't get as much practice or have as many tools as the pros, but we're doing a bit better than those that don't try.

My moccasins and sandals all have the ankle tie as well, all the ancient patterns do it that way. The tie around the ankle is very secure, and the rest of the shoe hangs from there, such that a stiff leather and perfect fit are not as critical.

elfn
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Re: Lasting

#728 Post by elfn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:29 pm

Good to know. I know it's a lot more comfortable. I just need to pair the shoe construction techniques with the low boot pattern.

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Re: Lasting

#729 Post by dlskidmore » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:22 pm

You think a plaster last will stand up to nailing well? I suppose it does well enough to hang wall art in my old plaster/lath house. House plaster has a fibrous fill added to it. Horsehair was common before asbestos, don't know if they used long tail/mane hairs or short hair stripped off a hide.

Medical plasters have a layer of gauze in them.

Would you use any fiber additive to the final last?

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Re: Lasting

#730 Post by paul » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:51 pm

Nori and Denise,
I'm reading this all as a repairman. Not as a boot maker who has a clue.
And I've got to tell you, I'm impressed by you two ladies. We've had a few on here in the past who show this same attitude.
Your spirit to deal for yourself is true pioneer stuff.
If I had something to offer, I would.
But if encourageing words are worth anything to you:
Go get 'em! You're doing a great job!
Don't worry about what "pros" may think.
And when someone does offer makers advise, weigh it against what you know at the time, and think for yourself. It's a process.
With the greatest of regards,
Paul

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Re: Lasting

#731 Post by dlskidmore » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:39 am

Thanks Paul!

elfn
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Re: Lasting

#732 Post by elfn » Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:07 am

Thank you Paul! I kinda like being called pioneerish! <grin>

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Re: Lasting

#733 Post by piper » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:41 pm

I am happy to see Denise and Lori here. I just lurk because I feel so intimidated by the pros. I don't want to make painful pointy oxfords. I just want shoes that don't hurt. So I make all my own shoes. No lasts, no equipment other than hand tools I bought from Tandy Leather. My biggest issue these days seems to be gluing on the soles. I can't get the soles to stick. If I just sit out there in the sun I'm pretty sure the glue warms up enough that if I wanted to I could just pull off the soles. I wish there was a source for decent glue. I get mine at the hardware store.

Here are some recent shoes. I have been afraid to put them in the gallery and pollute it with my crude shoes:
14558.jpg

I have trouble with the heel pieces on the outer edge. The thread (artificial sinew) tears after every hike I go on so I have to resew them again. And I can probably peel the soles off. All I have to do is barely try to separate them from the cloud layer and I can see the glue in there pulling away in golden strands. It's Barge cement from the hardware store.
14557.jpg

A nice person on this forum gave me the white leather and I made these clown shoes. Lesson learned: a copy of a copy of a copy ends up with very round shoes that are too big! Strange thing is I get a lot of compliments on them.

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Re: Lasting

#734 Post by athan_chilton » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:00 pm

Hey! Diane, showing your work is NOT "polluting the gallery!" Those are cute shoes. I like the lavender and green leather on the white shoes, too. Keep on experimenting!

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Re: Lasting

#735 Post by elfn » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:07 pm

Diane, they ARE cute! <grin>

Nori

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Re: Lasting

#736 Post by artzend » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:42 pm

Diane

you need to make sure that there are no fluffy fibres under your insole. Sand the flesh side of the insole to remove any, and also to remove dirt. Then apply two coats of contact allowing the first one to dry completely before adding the second. You don't need to apply the glue thickly either. Thin is best.

Now, sand the surface of the midsole which will be stuck to the insole and apply two coats of glue to that, same as before. Thin coats and allowing drying time. Don't be in a hurry to apply the second coat.

When both the insole and the midsole glued surfaces are completely dry (an hour or more is not excessive), apply heat to the midsole only. You can use a hair dryer or paint stripper or wave it over a gas flame until it gets tacky. It changes enough for you not to have to worry about not being able to tell. Don't burn the surface.

Put the two surfaces together and press and hammer to remove any air pockets. Then repeat the process for the midsole to sole. You must remove the surface of the sole to be adhered to the midsole or you will get it peeling off.

Tim
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dlskidmore
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Re: Lasting

#737 Post by dlskidmore » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:53 pm

Diane - so I'm not the only one in the world with square feet! I hung out with "minimalist runners" when transitioning to homemade shoes, and all the store shoes they raved about being anatomically correct were all wrong in the toebox for me.

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Re: Lasting

#738 Post by piper » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:19 pm

Yes, Denise, I know you. I was there as "Piper."

I guess I will have to try the heat method for the glue. My guess is that the stuff in the blue tubes isn't the same stuff you all use. It is quite thick and gloppy. I think you pros are able to thin yours down so you can apply it smoothly. When I let it dry, if I let it get too dry it doesn't stick at all. But maybe that's because I haven't tried heat. I have been hammering it with a 5lb maul and then resting a big jar of coins and my toolbox on top overnight.

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Re: Lasting

#739 Post by dlskidmore » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:15 am

Small world Diane! Good to "see" you again!

The blue tube is the first stuff I used. I used a piece of cardboard to spread the glue out thin on the leather, it does come out of the tube very gloppy.

I have a big can and thinner now, but it's the TF variety and I don't know if it's as good as the old stuff. I've not made anything requiring glue in a bit.

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Re: Lasting

#740 Post by piper » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:50 am

I know this is somewhat off topic, but you have to see this picture. This is why people like me make my own shoes. This poor man has walked thousands of miles in regular shoes until his feet look like shoes, not like feet:
http://andrewskurka.com/2012/minimizing-the-effects-and-aftermath-of-wet-feet/
I would not tolerate such foot deformation. I like my toes straight. Seriously, someone ought to make lasts (and shoes) that are shaped like real feet.

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Re: Lasting

#741 Post by elfn » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:05 pm

Diane, it won't happen. That shape isn't fashionable.

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Re: Lasting

#742 Post by marleneg » Thu May 31, 2012 5:27 am

My question concerning lasting in a cemented shoe e.g. a ladies court shoe:

should the upper overlap the lining on the insole and be cemented down to both, ling and insole or should the upper be glued on the lining and mainly don´t overlap it?
I would prefer the second version because of stability but don´t know if that is right..

little illustration:
14713.jpg


(Message edited by MarleneG on May 31, 2012)

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Re: Lasting

#743 Post by artzend » Thu May 31, 2012 4:11 pm

Marlene

It doesn't matter. As long as both are glued together they are not going to move. 1 is fine.

Tim
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Re: Lasting

#744 Post by zach » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:46 am

So, the way I'm making shoes and boots at the moment is cement construction. In case I have my terms mixed up what I do is:

I last the lining under and glue it, then lift up the back of the upper to put in a heel counter, and then glue the upper to the lining.

I've been making 6 inch ankle boots and don't particularly like this method for them. I don't like rolling up the leather over the heel, especially some of the heavier leathers that I've been using.

I use leather for the heel counters and see that many people paste it in and last the lining, counter and upper all at once. I want to start doing that. What I'm curious about is how the lining is attached to the upper above the heel counter. Or is it? Do I glue that part of the upper and lining together before I last it?

I've only seen videos of shoes being made this way, and from reading the forum I've gathered that cowboy boots are glued and then stitched to the lining. What about ankle boots?

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Re: Lasting

#745 Post by artzend » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:32 pm

Zach

An ankle boot doesn't need the lining attached to the upper, apart from at the topline. The lining is held solidly to the stiffener with paste, the loose area between the two fixing points doesn't matter.

Cowboy boots are made with different patterns from a hiking type, or dress boot, so the patterns dictate how the pieces go together. You can make a boot as high, or higher than a cowboy boot with a loose lining. It is done all the time.

Tim
www.shoemakingbook.com

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Re: Lasting

#746 Post by zach » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:27 pm

Tim

Thanks for the info. It's nice when I find out it's less complicated than I think.

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Re: Lasting

#747 Post by artzend » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:47 pm

Zach

It's not difficult, don't put the top of the stiffener too high, it should be lower than that for a shoe, or it can dig into the tendon where the last curves in. Unless you are using a boot last.

I have videos on youtube showing how to last up with the stiffener in place, if they are of any help.

Tim

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Re: Lasting

#748 Post by petrache » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:59 pm

What do you use for lateral stiffeners?i made my first wholecut /only the right one / and when i removed the last ,the leather almost "fall" when i push the finger through it.the leather is thin and i stretched it alot ,after bathing her in hot water to obtain the wholecut lasting.some details would help me alot for my next shoe.

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Re: Lasting

#749 Post by lancepryor » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:41 am

petrache wrote:What do you use for lateral stiffeners?i made my first wholecut /only the right one / and when i removed the last ,the leather almost "fall" when i push the finger through it.the leather is thin and i stretched it alot ,after bathing her in hot water to obtain the wholecut lasting.some details would help me alot for my next shoe.
I generally use a lining weight veg tan for my 'side linings.' These go from the heel counter to the toe puff, overlapping each of those so you have a continuous line of leather along the heel/side/toe of the shoe. I've also seen, IIRC, upper weight chrome tanned used, but I like the notion of a more water absorbent and water permeable leather in there. I paste the skiver top edge of the side liner/stiffener to the lining with Hirschkleber; I've also seen it done with rubber cement. You want something that will remain pliable when it dries. I mount it grain side in, so that I can refine the top edge near the toe puff as needed.

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Re: Lasting

#750 Post by dw » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:20 am

lancepryor wrote: I generally use a lining weight veg tan for my 'side linings.' These go from the heel counter to the toe puff, overlapping each of those so you have a continuous line of leather along the heel/side/toe of the shoe. I've also seen, IIRC, upper weight chrome tanned used, but I like the notion of a more water absorbent and water permeable leather in there. I paste the skiver top edge of the side liner/stiffener to the lining with Hirschkleber; I've also seen it done with rubber cement. You want something that will remain pliable when it dries. I mount it grain side in, so that I can refine the top edge near the toe puff as needed.
Interesting. I do it only slightly different (not saying one way is better than the other)--I mount the fleshside inward so that any irregularities with the skive doesn't shadow on the outside of the vamp. I also put the toe stiffener over the side liner. :tinfoil:
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