Lasting

Share secrets, compare techniques, discuss the merits of materials--eg. veg vs. chrome--and above all, seek knowledge.
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derrick_fischer
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Re: Lasting

#701 Post by derrick_fischer » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:17 am

Hi Nori,

The previous boots I sewed, I thought that might have been the problem, all these things you mention, but I don't know, not on this boot.

The seam was sewed by hand, I tacked the panels in place, the tacks was placed every half inch, I then placed the boot between 2 planks and screwed them down, the planks are in the form of a bow, there is alot of tention on the planks, plus the screws made the panels really secure.

I made very sure that I pushed the awl straight through both panels, that the leather was not folding and that all the stitches were in a straight line, on the front and back panels.

I ask this question, thinking that there was going to be a simple answer. I don't think I should be as worried about it as I am, I know it disappear treeing the boots.

Thank you all.

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Re: Lasting

#702 Post by derrick_fischer » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:37 am

Hi Paul,

That is definitely a possibility. I do stretch the liners a bit. But will you not see the panel bucking even when laying flat on your bench then?

elfn
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Re: Lasting

#703 Post by elfn » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:14 pm

What you're seeing in the leather is what I see when I don't match the straight of grain between lining and exterior of a jacket. Does this happen every time?

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Re: Lasting

#704 Post by derrick_fischer » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:22 am

Yes, it does, accept once. That was with nubuck.
I must say the fold becomes better as soon as I take out the last, its seems like the last is causing the problem, like its too big, but the boots fit.

areuwired

Re: Lasting

#705 Post by areuwired » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:43 am

Hi! I'm new here. I'm designing a pair of lasts that will ultimately be used to make my first pair of 120 mm high heels. I wondered if anyone has any tips on comfort, since I'm still designing the profiles and insoles of the lasts? I've been using George Koleff's Last Making book. Thanks for any insight!

dlskidmore
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Re: Lasting

#706 Post by dlskidmore » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:59 am

Has anyone used these custom lasts?

http://www.digitoe.com/digilast/index.html

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Re: Lasting

#707 Post by elfn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:56 am

I had my feet scanned and was never able to get lasts. Somewhere in cyber-space are two unusual feet . . .

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Re: Lasting

#708 Post by dlskidmore » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:08 am

Found an interesting study on making custom lasts, although I doubt many of us have access to the equipment:

http://cadanda.homestead.com/V2Nos1to4_02.pdf

The original last pictured has a bump where the vamp would meet the toe cap? Do you think this is an intentional feature or a defect in the last?

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Re: Lasting

#709 Post by elfn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:09 am

Crap. I lied. Wrong company. I contacted this company (they're local to me) and the owner said he wasn't doing it anymore. Same result, no last, but still . . . I lied.

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Re: Lasting

#710 Post by dlskidmore » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:10 am

Nori, did you end up having to pay for the lasts you didn't get, or was it only your time wasted?

I have a second cousin with a 3-D printer, but it's too small to do a last all in one go. I might however be able to get parts printed with holes down the middle and assemble them on dowels. I'm not sure where I could get my feet scanned though.

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Re: Lasting

#711 Post by dlskidmore » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:30 am

This company does insoles, they will make the digital blank from a foam impression. This would still be lacking measurements from the upper side of the foot needed for a last.

http://www.amfit.com/products/footprinter-foam-box

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Re: Lasting

#712 Post by elfn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:31 am

I drove almost two hours to get my feet scanned but I'm out only gas and time. No money changed hands. I can't get the data, can't order lasts . . .

I did some casting yesterday. Parts of it were successful so my attempt today should go better.

On the plus side, the shoes I made from the lasts my son poured for me have been really good. They aren't tight enough behind the ball and the shape over the arch still isn't comfortable, but the extra room in the toe has really paid off. My ingrown toe nail is a thing of the past.

There's got to be a 3-D scanner near you somewhere. They're pretty common now. How hard have you been looking?

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Re: Lasting

#713 Post by elfn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:45 am

<nods> My biggest problem right now is the foot bed for my left foot. I trashed the ankle in the 80's and that changed what's needed. I've got the right foot just about perfect, but the left still needs some help. I'm getting closer, just not quite there yet.

I did this same thing with plaster of paris. I think what I want to do is cast that impression, then use the casting as half of a press to shape heat activated cork into a support to go between my foot and the sole of the shoe. That's my current plan.

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Re: Lasting

#714 Post by elfn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:47 am

Oh, and I wore the pair of shoes I made while sitting in half an inch of water for an hour and a half and still had dry feet. I'm pretty pleased about that!

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Re: Lasting

#715 Post by dlskidmore » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:17 am

So far I've received advice to not waste my time on making lasts, but rather to customize an existing one. I just have really odd shaped feet, my customization would have to build out a whole new toebox shape, or carve the entire rest of the last down from a much larger one. I'm talking my little toes only comfortably fit in shoes several sizes larger than the rest of my foot, with about a half inch of extra room needed in shoes otherwise my size.

Casting with a little bit of hand shaping to round out or square off the toebox seems much more productive? You always use plaster and cork, or have you used other materials? I've made several masking tape lasts, but they're only sewing/fitting aids, not firm enough for stretching the leather or holding tacks.

I used to have thick calluses on those toes were they were constantly rubbing against the shoe, now that I wear moccasins and sandals all the time they are much healthier, although I suspect the toes will continue to spread for a bit longer as some are still a little bent. My right big toe has straightened more than my left.

Nice job with the watertight shoes. I'm definitely not there yet. My moccasins are thin leather that water goes right through. I made a winter pair of more resistant leather, but they don't breathe at all and are uncomfortable in good weather.

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Re: Lasting

#716 Post by elfn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:34 am

I've tried the "alter an existing pair" thing and it's not so great. My left foot is a 3½EEEEEE and the other is a 4EEEEE. There is just too much alteration required. Sound familiar?

The last I made are pretty darned good, and I know exactly where I made my mistakes.

1. Don't do the casting on a warm day when your feet are swollen.

2. Don't do a full weight bearing cast. Take most of the weight off that leg so you get an accurate rendering of the heel. I actually need to lift my left heel nearly half an inch to get a good rending.

3. When the positive has been cast and you're preparing to make the mold for the last, add material to the toe box area ONLY. Do not add to any other part.

If I do the above, I'll get a near-perfect last and it WILL fit better. I used dental casting material for the initial cast and it was awesome . . . and not too expensive. I used plaster of paris for the positive mold and Lorr (son) used a 2 part resin for the lasts. This last bit is really expensive so an alternate material is recommended here. Everything else was relatively inexpensive.

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Re: Lasting

#717 Post by dlskidmore » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:22 am

Sounds familiar, but I hesitate to use any standard measurements to express my issue. My measurement via brannock device does not result in a fitting shoe. The numbers it comes up with have no relation to shoes that come close to fitting me. I have a shape rather than size problem.

The bit about the heel is interesting, is that to get the roundness of the natural heel, or is that to account for heel lift in the style of shoe? I only make flat shoes so far, it has done wonders to correct my bad gait.

So your method:
1. Use dental casting material (how much needed?) to cast foot
2. Use plaster to make positive
3. Use (more plaster?) to shape desired toebox.
4. Use (dental material again?) to make a second negative
5. Use 2 part resin (other materials to be considered due to expense) to make final last

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Re: Lasting

#718 Post by elfn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:25 am

I hear you on the permeable leather. I have a test pair of short boots that don't keep the water out at all.

The shoes I made have three layers, a lining of kangaroo which wraps around the bottom of the insole and is glued in place, a midsole that covers the entire bottom and wraps up the sides of the foot all the way around (you can see a picture of it up near the top of this forum) which is also cemented in place. This base is covered by chrome tanned bison, which I love. The bison is a heavier leather used for making motorcycle bags but it's proven a boon to dry feet here in the wet northwest.

Next is a pair of short boots using the above construction from the pattern I made for the test boots. I should have comfortable AND dry . . . that's the plan. I just need the last adjusted first.

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Re: Lasting

#719 Post by dlskidmore » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:28 am

Here's an English company that does custom lasts. Found a re-seller of theirs in Singapore that charges $800 US for a last, didn't see a price on their site. They require a 3D scan or a 2D image plus measurements.

http://www.springline.net/bespoke.htm

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Re: Lasting

#720 Post by elfn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:44 am

I used one bag of alginate per foot. I got them from the dentist (my dentist rocks) for $5 a bag but they are also available on Ebay. Here's the link for my first casting.

casting with alginate

For the second negative I would use plaster and make a three part mold so you can use it over and over.

I really think, as well as plaster holds up, there's no reason not to use it for making lasts. If you have a good three part mold you could, for mere pennies, make a new set of lasts for each pair of shoes. There's somebody whose work I studied (can't remember) who used . . . oh! I know who it is! Leslie . . . can't remember her last name. She lives in CA and makes all her own shoes. She uses glue-down though, not classic bespoke. She wrote a book (I've got it here somewhere) showing how she does it.

I think, with the way I build my shoes, I could use her technique as I do a combo of glue and stitch down. I glue the lining around under the foot to the bottom of the insole, then I glue the shaper/midsole with a second midsole glued and stitched to that, then the outer is stitched down to the second midsole and the sole is then stitched to that. No reason I couldn't use plaster for the last. The only nailing I do is to hold the insole in place for gluing the lining.

Okay, I lied. That's four layers. Insole, midsole shaper (curves up around foot), midsole flat that extends out so the upper can be stitched to it and outer sole (vibram).

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Re: Lasting

#721 Post by elfn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:47 am

On the fit, I hear just what you're saying. I have a super high instep, super high arch and a really fat foot. There's a lot of volume in a very short length.

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Re: Lasting

#722 Post by elfn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:02 am

Oops. Lied again. I nail the lining down as well. You can tell it's been a while since I made my shoes. I'm obviously fairly forgetful.

/image{Lining stretched into place}

/image{Shaper and midsole glued and getting holes for stitching}

/image{Test boot from above - no lining, shaper or sole}

/image{From the side}

(Message edited by elfn on April 05, 2012)

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Re: Lasting

#723 Post by elfn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:06 am

Well shoot. That didn't go so well. Hopefully somebody with admin privileges will delete that. <wince> I'll try again.

Oops. Lied again. I nail the lining down as well. You can tell it's been a while since I made my shoes. I'm obviously fairly forgetful.
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dlskidmore
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Re: Lasting

#724 Post by dlskidmore » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:18 am

Nice work! I have so much to learn. There is a huge gap between moccasins and modern leather shoes.

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Re: Lasting

#725 Post by elfn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:40 am

I don't think there's much connection between what I'm doing and the accepted norm for modern leather shoes. I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be holding me up as an example. I just want something that fits my feet, doesn't hurt, supports by crappy ankle and keeps the water out. I'm pretty close. I just need to fix the looseness in the back part of the shoe and fix the foot bed for the left foot.

The next post is what the shoes I wear ended up looking like. There are a lot of pluses here.

I have determined, that for me, I can't have lace holes. The laces and tie laying over my instep are really uncomfortable, even with a 2 layer tongue as a buffer. It just doesn't work. Speed lacers work for me but I really only need the one closes to my ankle on the outside. The others can be loops.

I don't need to retie my laces every time I put my shoes on, thus the knotted lace. The way I have them run, I just lift the lace off the upper outside speed lacer and the shoe loosens sufficient for me to remove it. To put them on I slide my foot in and use the narrow end of a shoe horn as a button hook to get the lace back over the hook.

The boots have the lace running through a race around my ankle which really tightens up the back of the shoe so my foot doesn't shift. For me, this is a superior arrangement but I'll still be able to do a single speed lacer with the other fittings being rings.

I've got the new uppers cut out, I just need to make final changes to the lasts.

(Message edited by elfn on April 05, 2012)

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