Outsoles

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Re: Outsoles

#426 Post by mac » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:12 am

I use a heat gun to warm up the sole that softens up the barge to get the soles off. There is a magic amount of heat to get it off. Too hot and the sole can shrink. Not hot enough and you can't get it off. I usually start at the heel and work my way to the toe.

I use a shoe repair nippers just like DW to peel the sole off. You can purchase a heat gun at any hardware store. They are often used to strip wall paper.

I hope this helps...

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Re: Outsoles

#427 Post by piper » Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:57 pm

Nippers? Is that the technical term?

andre

Re: Outsoles

#428 Post by andre » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:36 pm

DW,
...und so weiter...
You speak German???
Andre

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Re: Outsoles

#429 Post by dw » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:52 pm

Andre...

Not really...I took German language classes when I was in high school almost 50 years ago. I have bits and pieces, that's all.

But, of course, this time of year I speak Lebkuchen, Springerle, Pfeffernuse and Butterspritzen.

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andre

Re: Outsoles

#430 Post by andre » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:11 am

Hello,
I would like to ask for some advice on trimming sole without any rand. I was working on a pair of ballet shoes and I was really scared of trimming the outsole (about 4mm) back to zero without "killing" the upper. So here is what I did, but I like to hear some advice how else it could be done. First I like to mention, that I don't have a hook knife, that would be helpful isn't it? I glued the rough cutting sole to the upper with some soft rubber solution. Than I took a marking pen, which is about 1mm thick and marked the sole around. Than I've removed the sole and cut out, rounded the edge and pressed it back on the last. This was not so easy, but I got it, finally finished the sole accordingly. Now I won't mind doing it again like this, but I would like some advice how else it could be done. Thanks
Andre

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Re: Outsoles

#431 Post by jon_g » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:25 am

Andre,

You can also tape the bottom of the shoe with masking tape and mark the perimeter of the sole area, then remove the tape and stick it to some pattern paper. This will give you an outline to cut your soles from.

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Re: Outsoles

#432 Post by dearbone » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:26 am

Andre,

A picture of the shoe would have helped because ballet shoes i watched being made at the old shop where i once worked were made like a turn shoe and the insole cut narrower than the last bottom to allow the upper at the toes going under to allow for toe standing.
To glue a sole to an upper to zero,one which you don't want to trim after it is on the upper,what i will do is to take accurate tracing on paper of the bottom of the last before upper is on,it can also be traced with upper on,this can serve as your sole plate,than you can cut it in leather and put on upper to check for fit,if it is good you can finish the edges too,gluing it to the bottom of the lasted shoe is a careful touch,i start putting the soles on with the front of the shoe slowly lowering it toward the middle and the rest to the heel.

Nasser

andre

Re: Outsoles

#433 Post by andre » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:11 pm

John, thank you, yes of course, masking is certainly a good option.
Nasser, thank you and you're certainly right, gluing the zero sole to the upper is a tough one. I do it like you said and I'm quite good on this operation (sole pressing in a factory was one of my favorite jobs during school holidays...), but I feel one problem by pressing the zero sole is, in case it doesn't come alright, than you have to correct it by opening the sole a bit and at this time you disturb the adhesives coats and that could course later problems in the durability of the shoe. My question is, would you prefer to prepare the sole and glue it or would you prefer to trim it to zero and if so how and what tool you would work with? Hope it makes sense what I'm writing here. If you like to see a shoe I'm talking about, let's take a link from Zappos, my shoe is already delivered, this one is pretty close:
http://www.zappos.com/product/7814163/color/298981
What do you think?
Andre

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Re: Outsoles

#434 Post by artzend » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:21 am

Andre

George Koleff taught us to use a knife, rasp, glass and sandpaper to trim the soles after pressing. You run the risk of damaging uppers but it can be done.

I think it is easier to make a pre shaped sole and press that into place.

Tim

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Re: Outsoles

#435 Post by dearbone » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:28 am

Andre,

By default i don't make zero soles unless i am asked or have no choice like on the next two pairs of 4 inch high heels i am making where the soles have to Cover the narrow heel on the inside,this area is hard to trim to zero afterward,so it is a good thing to prepare it before gluing it to the shoe,the front i trim with straight knife but not to zero, this might sound hard to believe but if the bottom shape of the last is accurately taken,you can do this by pressing the paper to the bottom of the last it will give you a good line to cut,you may need to fix the curve on the inside waist because most lasts don't have feather line there,you may think you might come short when the upper lasted and stiffener and cap added,leather is generous and forgiving,if it come short you can stretch pull it, the alignment of the front and the back of the shoe and sole at the moment of gluing is important and like said earlier, a gradual contact staring from the front.this is my 2-----

Nasser

andre

Re: Outsoles

#436 Post by andre » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:59 pm

Tim,
yes I can do that too, but certainly I don't consider myself as a master in this technique. I use a woodstick, "lock" my knife behind it and move quite fast from toe to heel, than I can move it only slowly around the heel with smaller cuts, so later I land up with lots of finishing work. I found this headache not worth it, but was keen on finding out, how others might do it.
Nasser,
thanks for your advice, I think know it's clear to me, it's better to prepare the sole before.
Regards
Andre

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Re: Outsoles

#437 Post by artzend » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:35 pm

Andre

Pre shaping is the easiest way, have a look at the ladies sole pattern in my book for ideas if it helps. Not the heel breast part though.

Just add to your bottom pattern, the additions such as upper and lining and toe puff and stiffener, and you may have to fiddle with the waist to get it right.

Put a mark on the flesh side of the sole in the centre front and on the bottom of the lasting allowance so you can line those two sections up when you put them together. Eventually you don't need this mark but it helps at first.

Tim

andre

Re: Outsoles

#438 Post by andre » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:32 am

Tim,
this are very valued points, thanks a lot. Will go through ur book again,
regards
Andre

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Re: Outsoles

#439 Post by homeboy » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:18 pm

Sample of a sole with the channel cut from the edge of the outsole. I like it!
14271.jpg
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Re: Outsoles

#440 Post by homeboy » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:27 pm

Close up of stitching @ 7-8 spi:

toe
14279.jpg
14279.jpg (39.87 KiB) Viewed 1001 times


lateral side
14278.jpg
14278.jpg (40.04 KiB) Viewed 1001 times

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Re: Outsoles

#441 Post by dearbone » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:37 pm

Jake,

This is some bad sole stitching,what is the thread you used? well done on the sole stitching.

Nasser

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Re: Outsoles

#442 Post by homeboy » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:00 pm

Nasser,

Five lengths of #10 bleached Barbours shoe linen. No white wax, just some beeswax. #4 harness needles (heated and curved) to perform the stitching instead of fishing line. Worked like a charm! Very easy and quick to set up.

What I'm kinda proud of is the use of the knife, rasp, glass, and edge iron. No machinery was used....a first for me. Made me proud I could do it without "flipping" a switch. It also makes a feller appreciate what the "old" masters could produce with a few tools. Looks like we have some "new" masters still doing it the same way. Good for them! Pretty darn neat!

Did ya get that warm weather I sent ya?

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Re: Outsoles

#443 Post by romango » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:25 pm

Beautiful work Jake. How do you make the prick marks between stitches?

- Rick

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Re: Outsoles

#444 Post by homeboy » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:40 pm

Hey Rick,

I use a stitch prick....single blade (like Dee-Dub's). The only difference in mine, one side is flat. The flat side goes next to the vamp before you make your mark. Tends to lessen your indentations on the vamp. I'll try to snap a pic within the next few days.

Thanks for the compliment Rick! Take care!

One correction on my previous post....I stated a 'rasp'......should be shoemaker's file. Sorry!

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Re: Outsoles

#445 Post by dw » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:48 pm

Jake,

Are you sure you didn't take a tungsten carbide burr to that welt? Image

I thought your welt pricking was particularly nice. But truth to tell the whole job is quite clean and very professional looking. Image

Good on you.

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Re: Outsoles

#446 Post by homeboy » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:44 am

Dee-Dubb,

It's always particularly nice to receive a "at-a-boy" from your mentor. I appreciate it dearly.

I guess I'm too hard on myself. Or maybe I'll never be satisfied with the end results. I can always find improvement. And just maybe that's what makes this whole process so intriguing. I see better......I want better.

Yeah, I've gone back to a "modified" stitch prick. Actually, it's a saddlemakers creaser. I'll post a pic later. The "Tex Robins" pliers weren't working on real narrow stitching margins. They would slip off and gouge the edge of the sole. And this was the traditional way of doing it also.

Which brings me back to one of my recent statements. I got a kick out of doing this repair job without machinery. They used to do this in a 10'x10' with candles and a fork/spoon.

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Re: Outsoles

#447 Post by dearbone » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:53 am

Jake,

Thanks for the warm weather you sent,it came with some rain but beggars can't be choosers,i will take it. I missed stitching with that linen #10 thread.

Nasser

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Re: Outsoles

#448 Post by kevindeleon » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:59 pm

So,

I may be posting this in the wrong place...if so, just let me know. This is far from a "traditional" derby, but I have seen this done in other more traditional shoes as well. Is there a reason, other than aesthetics, that the stitching channel is left open here on the outsole?

http://www.johnvarvatos.com/Fleetwood_Lace_Derby/pd/np/13334/p/3554.html

I know that some people will scoff at the "aging" effect they are going for in the shoe, but I am more concerned with the stitching channel technique.

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Re: Outsoles

#449 Post by dw » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:13 pm

Kevin,

That is not an open channel. It is a vertical channel and the stitches are not exposed.

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Re: Outsoles

#450 Post by jon_g » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:30 pm

Jake your stitching looks great nice job on the bottom too. Keep working on this and you will get faster, then you'll be able to retire the machines.

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