Outsoles

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erickgeer

Re: Outsoles

#376 Post by erickgeer » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:14 pm

Nasser,

I had to shelve the project for the time being, so I never corrected for the stiffness issue. I've only just started revisiting the project, but I've spent a great deal of time contemplating them.

You really (stressing "really') need to look at existing cycling shoes to see how the cleats are attached- using a full length metal shank is certainly one good solution. And don't forget that there are multiple types of cleats out there- some of which share only the attachment points. Some of them stand prouder of the sole than others. There are also different ideas of proper placement of the cleat in relation to the ball and center-line.

Lastly- the fit needs to be snug through the shank- without full support, the forces of pedaling can be painful.

Depending on the type of cycling this customer does, weight is an extreme factor in creating cycling shoes- that is why the market favors carbon fiber soles.

I hope this helps, and I'd enjoy following your progress if you're willing.

Erick

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Re: Outsoles

#377 Post by jon_g » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:08 pm

Nasser, Why not use carbon fiber. I've used something similar when trying to stiffen insoles.

Cut a regular insole, glue on a shank.

Mark the holes in the shank on the top of the insole by sticking a scratch awl through.

Then use either fiberglass cloth or carbon fiber cloth with fiberglass resin and hardener. Wrap the whole thing in saran wrap.

The next day unwrap, and grind away the excess cloth. Drill out and rivet through the marks for the shanks holes. Then you will have to feather the fiberglass a little, using your grinder, in the area where you want lasting tacks to penetrate.

This method produces a very strong, lightweight insole without a whole lot of bulk. A tip, wrap the last in saran to prevent fiberglass resin from getting on it.

Oh and sand the bottom of the fiberglass all over just to rough it up for the cement.

Hope this helps

Jon

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Re: Outsoles

#378 Post by dearbone » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:24 am

Erick, Jon,

As you know bicycle shoes and almost all sport shoes were originally hand made,i like to welt sew this road cycle shoes and stitch leather soles to them,all i have to sort out is a shape of steel shank that will cup the ball and arch, i will start them after i finish with what i am working on now which are shoes for hammer toes.thanks for your tips and suggestions.

Regards
Nasser

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Re: Outsoles

#379 Post by jon_g » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:29 am

Nasser,

Consider using fiberglass cloth and resin to fill the shank area and in the forefoot. That way you get the best of both worlds, a welted shoe with old fashioned look and a stiff insole for pedaling. Also you can buy cleats at bike store and install them on your shoes, best to buy them in advance.

Jon

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Re: Outsoles

#380 Post by dearbone » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:14 am

Jon,

Now you are talking,fiberglass cloth and resin to fill the cavity when the welt is sewn,that way i can minimize the size of the steel plate i need under the ball. BTW, the person who ordered the shoes is an old friend and a bicycle maker,but now days he own a bike store,sell them and parts and they also have a space in the back for repairing,he gave me some cleats and a pair of bike shoes to open if needed,and that was back when,but he is a "Tyson" and never gave up on them,so now is the time reckoning with this shoe. back to my closing.

Nasser

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Re: Outsoles

#381 Post by dearbone » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:01 am

Finally i got the chance to put few carbon fiber layers to fill the cycle shoes cavity at Walter Klassen film special effects studio down the street from my shop,i added an extra layer for the gods and to make sure of the firmness, i will post the finish shoe when i put the cleats and stitch the soles. i am thinking whether to put a steel shank or not!!!
9739.jpg

Nasser

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Re: Outsoles

#382 Post by dw » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:20 pm

Nasser,

Those are nice looking shoes, sure enough. I will be interested in seeing the finished shoe.

I must say that I have noticed, Nasser, that you have a broad range of styles that you do and are extremely skilled at doing. I admire that. I wish I were as adept. Image

Tight Stitches
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Re: Outsoles

#383 Post by dw » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:22 pm

Nasser,

BTW, at the very top of this discussion are a pair of elephant boots that Jake Dobbins did...and hand-stitched the outsole.

FWIW...

Tight Stitches
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Re: Outsoles

#384 Post by dearbone » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:56 pm

DW,

Thanks for the kind words,i don't know being adept is a blessing or a curse? but that's what life led me to, I don't know how i missed noticing Jake's boots were hand stitched, power to your awl Jake.

Regards
Nasser

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Re: Outsoles

#385 Post by jon_g » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:39 pm

Nasser, very nice.

I don't know if a shank is necessary or not. I usually put one in before laying the cloth.

Jon

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Re: Outsoles

#386 Post by dearbone » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:28 pm

J,

First i want to say that i like your boot lasting video,not to mention your clean shop floor!!!i have a lot to learn,i think it is better to place the shank on the top of the carbon fiber cavity,rather than placing it under,but i am also no engineer,but if you think about it,it might make sense. here is a picture.
9741.jpg

Nasser

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Re: Outsoles

#387 Post by dearbone » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:32 pm

`Sorry the boot lasting video was Jay's and not yours. sorry Jay.

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Re: Outsoles

#388 Post by homeboy » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:37 am

Nasser,

I have to say my awl is getting a little rusty. It's been hard to find the time to get back in the shop. But if I don't pretty soon, I'll be barefoot!

Let me echo Dee-Dubb's appreciation of your broad range of styles. Very impressive! A few years ago I shuffled back to the shadows with the "lurkers". I have been fairly silent, but I still keep up with the discussions. I have truly enjoyed your contribution to the forum. Thank You for all your time and hard work.

Finally, Thanks for the kind words. It means a lot to be noticed by someone of your caliber.

Take care Gals & Guys.

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Re: Outsoles

#389 Post by j_johansen » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:06 am

Nasser,
As an avid cyclist, I am watching your project with keen interest. I love the cut and style of the upper on this cycling shoe you are making. Keep posting photos, especially of the cleat mounting. Also I noticed the V notching in your heel seat, is this piece of leather strait to begin with and you bend it around the heel, or is it cut from the hide already in a U shape?
Cheers, J.

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Re: Outsoles

#390 Post by dearbone » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:34 am

Jake,

It is always nice to he hear from you and thanks,I am grateful to be here, it is my long sought family so to speak and i also learn and inspired being here,i also believe our trade needs all the help it can get to keep it going.

Jay,

Thank you,The next step seems to be the hardest,correctly locating the area to place the cleats, i took a foam imprints of the bottom of his feet and hopefully that will help.
You also asked about heel seat piece, i cut 3/4 inch or 1 inch strips from a thick insole shoulder than i use the blade of the 5 by 1 machine to split them into two equal wedges,top and bottom and i use both to build the heel seat,so no waste here,the grain one is used first,if you like,you might need to practice on small pieces to split them in equal thickness wedges,after that i sock the split strips in water for a while, cut them roughly to size,cut few v notches and start making some horse shoes, leave for a day to dry.This is what the old timers used to do,leather being expensive or hard to find at times.

Regards Nasser
9743.jpg

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Re: Outsoles

#391 Post by dearbone » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:59 am

Jay, Since you are a boot maker,you might want to cut your strips 1 inch wide,if you decide to do so of course.

Nasser

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Re: Outsoles

#392 Post by j_johansen » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:02 am

Nasser,
Thank you very much for the picture, Makes it very easy for me to understand. Also, here are some pictures of how my cleats attach to my cycling shoes and are able to be adjusted side to side, and front to back.
9748.jpg
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9746.jpg
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9745.jpg
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Re: Outsoles

#393 Post by dearbone » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:44 pm

J,

Thanks for posting those pictures,the cleats i am using(customer choice) are the same as yours,now i have to sort out the best way to secure the bottom parts of the cleats to the carbon fiber cavity so that they wouldn't move after the soles are stitched,i need to think out of the box for this pair.i will post pictures when that's done.BTW, i admire you cyclists braveness for hooking your feet to the pedals.

Nasser

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Re: Outsoles

#394 Post by dearbone » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:31 am

9776.jpg


Some of you asked me to report the progress on this shoes,wasn't easy sewing into dried up welt,secured the bottom part of the cleats to carbon fiber shaped cavity which is 4mm or 5mm thick, the holes on the soles have to be made exact to meet the bottom part of the cleats(there is a simple trick you can use)and the soles i stitched with cleats fastened to bottom part,i will add strips of leather (platform) to raise the soles and to protect the cleats when walking and hopefully all goes well when the last is out.

Nasser

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Re: Outsoles

#395 Post by 1947redhed » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:30 pm

Nasser, I hope you're going to share the "simple trick" you mention above for aligning the holes on the soles.
Georgene

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Re: Outsoles

#396 Post by dearbone » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:51 am

Georgene, instead of using the leather sole to mark the holes,i used the soles paper/cardboard pattern to mark the holes by simply aligning it on top of the shoe and the bottom part of the cleats which are already there,hold the paper with one hand on both sides of the cleats and tap gently with hammer the paper against the cleat which should show 4 rings(circles) on paper, punch the holes on paper and than using the paper pattern,punch the holes on leather.I hope that makes some sense.

Nasser

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Re: Outsoles

#397 Post by dearbone » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:26 am

Here is the finished cycling shoes,the strength of the soles(carbon fiber) was beyond my expectations and the customer tried them on his bike and was very happy with them and sometimes that is the highest reward.
9816.jpg

Nasser

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Re: Outsoles

#398 Post by paul » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:50 pm

Nasser,

We share the joy of your success!

Way to go!

Paul

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Re: Outsoles

#399 Post by dearbone » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:22 pm

Paul, thank you, you yourself have been going through some journey with your western boot making,i have been watching the development silently and with joy at heart.

Nasser

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Re: Outsoles

#400 Post by large_shoemaker_at_large » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:17 pm

Nasser
They look great, And that warm fuzzy felling you are entilied to!

So when are you going to be the official supplier to to the Tour De France?

Regards
Brendan

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