Outsoles

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dlskidmore
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Re: Outsoles

#476 Post by dlskidmore » Mon May 07, 2012 11:47 am

http://www.vibram.us/downloads/April09.pdf - Page 2 has Vibram's directives for bonding. Model number 1330? For adhering to leather, sounds like you're using the correct technique.

What shape is the leather sole you are adhering to? Are these minimalist shoes where the leather will be trying to curve up around the foot while the rubber wants to remain stiff? I had trouble with my newporter soles sticking to a ghillie bottom for this reason.

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kemosabi
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Re: Outsoles

#477 Post by kemosabi » Mon May 07, 2012 11:59 am

Cleaning/prepping Vibram surface with PVC pipe glue primer helps. Not sure what type of material "Newporter" is, but it makes a big difference on the black rubber Vibram soles.
You can buy it in a can at the hardware store and it's a watery liquid; Usually purple. I believe it's acetone based, but don't quote me on that.
Haven't used the non-toulene Barge.
ShoeGoo works good, but you'll have to clamp the sole while the adhesive cures. Prep/clean the same way using purple primer.

-Nat

piper
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Re: Outsoles

#478 Post by piper » Tue May 08, 2012 4:07 pm

The Newporter is a rubbery rubber. It is black, not porous, not stiff. You try to sand it with a belt sander and it just flexes the harder you press inward. No material actually gets sanded off. It's marketed for restaurant workers.

The cobbler supplies website says that some of the Barge cements that come in cans are much stronger than the stuff you can buy in retail outlets. Perhaps I can just use the stuff in the red and yellow can and get better results?

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Re: Outsoles

#479 Post by kemosabi » Wed May 09, 2012 9:03 am

You may be right... Haven't used the stuff in a tube, but the Barge in a red/yellow can works fine. The soles I'm buying come pre-sanded (rough surface), so all that's needed is a good cleaning/priming.
Also; Not sure if you are using leather midsoles, but I've had problems if the leather isn't totally dry.
Are you using something to clean the surfaces (acetone, etc)? In my experience; If you don't use primer, they won't stick, even on a sanded surface.

-Nat

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Re: Outsoles

#480 Post by piper » Wed May 09, 2012 10:01 am

I tried to use denatured alcohol once, but it didn't appear to do anything except leave little bits of paper towel fibers all over the sole. So I was just attempting to roughen the surface of the rubber with a file. The surface looks really clean to me like it ought to stick well without doing anything. I've heard somewhere that you can prime the surface with a flame. I could try that.

The leather seems like it sticks well. The glue never appears to peel off of the leather.

I have a pair of shoes that I made using the same consumer-quality glue and they've never come apart. They must have changed the formula or something. I'm going to order some of that professional glue and see if it works better. I am so close to my goal of making a pair of sandals and shoes that I can use for hiking.

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Re: Outsoles

#481 Post by dw » Wed May 09, 2012 10:27 am

The Barge NT is a professional level cement. But Barge has been going downhill for as long as I can remember. The yellow and red can is old stock...before they decided to change the formula.

I use Duall 88 and never have a problem with the few pairs of Vibram soling I might do in a year.

If you are trying to cement vibram to a midsole such as is usually supplied with every pair of Vibram outsoles, the best approach (straight from Quabaug) is to clean the surfaces with all-purpose cement thinner. Alcohol doesn't get it and I'm not sure what acetone will do.

Then make up a "primer"--maybe one part cement and four or five parts thinner. Apply to both surfaces and let dry...overnight if possible.

The next day, apply cement full strength to both surfaces. Let dry....overnight if possible.

The next day, warm both surfaces with hairdryer on high or a heat gun.

Mount the sole to the midsole and hammer well.

Let cure...overnight if possible.

Do not allow any heat to build up when sanding these down.

Bottom line, however...and no disrespect intended...as you suggested, if you want professional results you need to use professional level products, materials and tools. Buying stuff at the local hardware store is usually a prescription for frustration.

just my Image

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

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kemosabi
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Re: Outsoles

#482 Post by kemosabi » Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:27 pm

Looking for advice on how to make a closed channel seam using my Junker and Ruh SD28.

For example;
-Open a channel on the outsole bottom.
-Stitch the welt seam with my J&R from the top.
-Close the channel and rub it down.

I'm worried about having the seam wander outside the channel, or sometimes the channel won't stay open while stitching which is also a mess.

Maybe the J&R was never designed for a closed channel?

Thx,
-Nat

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Re: Outsoles

#483 Post by das » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:30 am

Nat,

The Junker & Ruh excels at this if--IF--you have the channel stitching needle plate. This plate has a tiny tab of steel bent upwards to run in the channel and guide the work so the stitches stay perfectly in the channel. Afterward, dampen the sole and channel lip and beat it closed--works like a charm.

Maybe somebody has or can post a picture of the channel stitching plate? It's shown in the parts list that is at the back of the manual.

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kemosabi
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Re: Outsoles

#484 Post by kemosabi » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:16 am

OK> That makes sense. I can modify my stitching plate, or make a new one with the tab.

I'm most familiar with angled channel, since that's what I use when hand sewing. Can you explain the type of channel you're using that works so well?

Really love my JR machine. Glad to know "Guenter" can do a closed seam too. Image

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kemosabi
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Re: Outsoles

#485 Post by kemosabi » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:47 pm

Al,
A bit of searching revealed the answer from one of your previous posts (Sewing Machines thread Nov 2010):

"My Junker works best with a deep vertical channel cut straight down into the sole, then pried wide open by wiggling a channel-opener through it, while wet. Afterwards this channel can be hammered closed to completely hide the threads;"

Thx,
-Nat

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Re: Outsoles

#486 Post by tjburr » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:06 pm

Nat,

I do not know if you seen the description I posted on sewing machines archive 651-675 of how to build a JR plate with the tab for channels.

I can see if I can find the original pattern pieces if you are interested and post a PDF scan. It was quite easy to build and worked real good. I used some pictures from Alistair to judge how big to make the tab.

Terry

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kemosabi
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Re: Outsoles

#487 Post by kemosabi » Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:54 pm

Studied that thread for quite a while yesterday. Good info. Been thinking about how I want to attack this problem after taking a closer look at my stitch-plate last night. Seems like there's as many different stitch-plates as there are JR's out there!

Thanks for offering patterns. For now I'm considering modifying the existing stitch plate.

Regards,
-Nat

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Re: Outsoles

#488 Post by farmerfalconer » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:05 pm

I saw an ad in an old shoemaking magazine for borax to soften soles (mix with water). Is that a good techniqe?

Thx,
Cody

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Re: Outsoles

#489 Post by courtney » Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:40 pm

Hi, my soles keep curling up, especially the one with the rocker sole for LLD. they have eva soles.

I just started putting shoe trees in them and it has helped, but not enough. its been 4-5 days I think.

Do you think it will continue to flatten out or what about heating the soles or something?

Its pretty uncomfortable, the shoes are welted, What should I do?

thanks,
Courtney

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