Vertical fasteners

[dmcharg]

Al,
Thanks for the info. I'll try it. I'm making pegging awls out of 'music wire' (as the model aircraft shop calls it). Spin the length in a dremel or drill holding reducing grades of emery paper against it to get the taper you want. Being round I can twist it out of the leather.
*Now* with the beeswax trick I may shift to square awls, as they've been a pest in the past to get out. Also I recently got a pile of car valve springs, so when I've got my forge up I'll have a go at whacking up some of them.

Thanks again
Duncan

[D.A. Saguto--HCC]

Tex, Jake,

I think that might be J. Weiner & Sons, Roanoke, Virginia???? Big shoe repair finders. Never heard of Weiner in NC.

[jake]

Al,

Thanks! I'll try to find a phone # for Tex this morning.

D.W. & Tom,

Concerning the pegs, the first number is the length in 1/8ths, if my memory serves me right, and the second number is the guage (the lower the number the bigger). D.W., have they changed to something else now?

[dw]

Jake,

That's what I've heard. I haven't bought any for awhile. When I did, the designation was as you say--first number the length in 1/8ths and the second the gauge. But, I think I have a fairly new Goetz catalog over at the shop and I vaguely remember noting that the pegs sizes were completely unintelligible, now. I could be wrong, as I say...I heard the rumor, verified it for myself in passing, and went on to other things.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[Tex Robin]

DW,all,

Janne called and Götz has discontinued the shorter pegs. Bad news. If I could just find a toesack full, my worries would be over. The last sack lasted me about 30 yrs..TR

[dw]

Tex,

Dern, that's bad news, indeed.

One small suggestion--I'm sure you've already thought of this but the newer folks might not have--use a bit longer peg...one where you know, and can readily see, the difference between your ideal length and the length of the longer one. Drive the peg just that much short of home. So that if you find yourself using a 5/8ths peg, drive it so that there is an eighth sitting proud above the sole. Rasp off the excess (only takes a sec) and then drive the pegs in solid to seat them.

I've done that when pegging a full sole for full wellingtons (I didn't want to feel any pegs in the forepart of the boot...it's hard to float them way down in the toe) and it worked like a charm

Not the ideal solution but it might get you through till something else turns up.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[Tex Robin]

DW,

Yes, I have already tried that and several other tricks like using a spacer. The spacer should be on the hammer though. There is one for a hammer maker. An adjustable gauge on the hammer head. Of course you would have to be pegging an completely flat surface. Let's find some short pegs!..TR

[gaid]

All,
The Götz company have only five sizes of the Blau Ring pegs in their new catalogue. There are they sized in the metric system. However, they who make the Blau Ring pegs still make them with the old label on the box! I think they still make them in all different sizes. But I don't know where to find the manufacture.
Janne

[jake]

To All,

Somebody is gonna have to help me on J. Weiner & Sons phone #. Couldn't find it anywhere!

Sorry Tex! I do have 3 quarts of 5/8" length pegs, but they are a small gauge---probably sixes. You are welcome to them.

[jake]

Tex,

Here ya go:

J. Weiner & Co.
351 W. Campbell Ave.
Roanoke, VA 24016
Phone: (540) 345-7456
Fax: (540) 343-0544

By the way, for those of you who haven't ordered yourself a copy of The Crispin Colloquy on CD, you sure are missing out! It's worth it's weight in gold!

[Tex Robin]

Jake,

I put Southern Leather on the 4/8 pegs. If they can't find them, there aren't any...TR

[Tex Robin]

All,
Here is a list of shoe finders in the US with addresses:

http://www.shoesmarts.com/wholesalers.htm

......TR

[dw]

Tex, Janne,

My latest Goetz catalog has them still carrying the 03 size pegs (by this time they had already dropped about six sizes and no longer carried the 01, the 02, the 04, and others even larger). The 03's are 12mm x 1.7mm...which translates out to 15/32" x -1/16"--the right length but thin, in other words.

You might try emailing them and seeing if you can get the 03's or even the name of a direct dealler. Their email is:

info@goetz-gmbh.de

Good Luck.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[mebaltezore]

Jake and Tex,

The toll free number for J. Weiner& Co. is: 1-800-444-6979. Talk to Keith.

Mike

[jake]

Michael,

Thanks for the help! Toll free is always better!

[fjones]

DW

You asked “Aren't there machines that spit out lasting tacks”. There are numerous lasting machines still around which were designed to do tack lasting. Some like the Consolidated Hand Method Lasting Machine (known as the “Consol” in the industry) do put tacks in one at a time. I suppose you could describe them as spitting out lasting tacks.

The machine I had in mind in my 25th August posting was the tack seat lasting machine. This lasts the whole of the heel area (the seat) in one go and puts in something like 25 tacks simultaneously. The 25 tacks come down 25 flexible pipes from a tack box at the top of the machine and are driven into place down individual tubes by what I can only describe as 25 nail punches. As you can imagine the machine is very solid and quite noisy in operation. However, when set up properly you get a flat, well lasted seat which is quite solid and therefore capable of taking the traditional built heel.

Interestingly a subsequent factory operation is called seat nailing and this machine does insert one nail at a time in quick succession as the shoe is rotated manually around the last pin. This in some ways is similar to an Autosoler except that it uses per-made nails rather than lengths of wire chopped off a reel, as the Autosoler does.

Both these machines are still widely used by classic men’s shoes factories making Goodyear welted footwear.

Attaching the heel block comes later but I will stop there before everybody is asleep.

Frank Jones
frank.jones@shoemaking.com

[dw]

Frank,

Thanks for the info. I suspected as much. It's like getting into computers--seems even the most progressive of us can turn around and find ourselves obsolete, or among the "traditionalists," after a fashion, if we don't continue to upgrade. Upgrade, upgrade. I guess if I were going to nail the heelseat or any other part of the boot, I'd have to seriously consider one of these machines. If efficiency is the goal, it doesn't seem quite logical to only go half way. Is half efficient still efficient?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[tmattimore]

I think you are descriping some of the early heel lasters. other machines also used tacks I have a UPO which pulls the upper over the ball and toe area and spits out up to seven tacks at one time the rex pull over was one of the earliest with the consolidated line. the rex line also included an assembly machine which I beelive also built up and nailed on the heel. These machines were and are ugly noisy and not for the faint of heart but much as some love their corvettes and volvos I love mine and am always fascinated at the way 8000 moving parts work at once.

[natasha]

Dear Folks
I'm a newby here so bear with me - maybe this question is nicely answered in the CDs. My interest in old shoes is two fold, as a costumer (for fun) and as an historical archaeologist (for career). While analysing some shoe bits from a upper class Hispanic site that was occupied circa 1804 to 1869, I noticed lots (spacing 4-6 mm)of square nails (actually rectangular 8-9 mm x 3.2 x 2mm) in the heels that are definitely not iron or steel - no rust and non magnetic. Actually they look like zinc to me. Could this be? Anybody know anything about them? Would they have been for use in a nailing machine? If so, what kind? They occcur with iron lasting tacks, which are balls of rust at this point in time, which may be why zinc was used. Any help appreciated. I love the Colloquy. Regards, Natasha

[tmattimore]

Natasha
Could the nails be brass? Could they also be a hardwood peg? I have seen some hardwood pegs that at first looked to be nails in the heel. In the period as now pegs came in various gauges some quite substansial. As I lived in N.M. most of my life what site are you refering to and is there any chance of seeing photos of recovered shoes(please please). I do not recall any machine that used square nails as even the earliest used a headed tack so as to keep the sharp end aimed to the work. I belive DW has some large gauge hardwood pegs.

[natasha]

Tom, I seem to recall your name from reenacting days, yes? Anyway, the nails. This site dates from 1804 to 1869 so it may predate nailing machines. Remember the time lag in New Mexico technology and access to manufactured goods. This site was abandoned 10 years before the railroad hit here. These may be even older than 1868-9, as they are the shoes the owners didn't bother to take when the site was abandoned. The site is LA 4968 otherwise known as Los Valdez, at Cuyamungue. And no, they cannot be hard wood pegs, although many of the shoes were pegged in the soles. These critters are only found in the heels and maybe one toe. I have one in my little hot hand. It is grey and shiny, abosolutely not brass. When I hit one with a hammer it turned into a hard sharp dust. The color is very like zinc which is why I suggested it. I grant you the metal is separating into the grain, much like cut iron nails will do, but as I said, the iron lasting tacks are quite rusty; these guys have no rust. I will be happy to get you some photos, but it will take a while to arrange. Remember, these are shoe fragments, not shoes. SOmetimes that's even better cause you can see the hidden bits. Would you be interested in some more work on the Glorieta shoes? I live right across the road from Kip and have been wanting to look at them nmy own self, now that I know a bit more about period footwear. Maybe we could post some pics and get a raging discussion going? Where are you living these days? Regards, Nat

[tmattimore]

Natasha
Yes it is I. We left N.M. 6 years ago for Wyoming. Perhaps, since the wise men in Santa Fe have decided to honor our visitors with Alien recognition day, the nails may be undiscovered alien technology. Seriously you have me stumped. Malleable iron? Try the university some one there should have a gas chromatagrah.
I sure would like to see more work on the Glorietta shoes
Good to hear from you
Tom

[das]

Okay, bit of a question--

Has anybody gotten through to D. B. Gurney, Whitman, Mass. lately? I tried to phone-in an order for tacks yesterday, and got some voice-mail box, some gal's extension, and no return call.

Please don't tell me Gurney's gone.

[tmattimore]

D.B. has been terribly slow in return calls. I have not been able to talk to some one about an order in a week.
Tom

[dw]

Al,

I called Gurney today...no problem. They said that they had not been in office on Monday--Presidents' Day--but otherwise all was well with them

Try using their 800 number--1.888.447.8380

I even asked...said I had heard a rumor that they were going out of business...the woman scoffed and said "no" with such amusement and disdain that I believed her.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC