One "Last" Question
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last_maker
Re: One "Last" Question
I am looking for this book: Last Making and Last Measurement; (London,1889) by Albert E. Tebbutt. Does anyone know where I can locate it???
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srtango
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Re: One "Last" Question
Marlietta,
The clay I used is the regular clay you can get in craft store. They are reusable. The only drawback is the grease in the clay gets in your hands and therefore over the shoes. I don't know the consequence of that yet. Wrap the whole shoe with plastic that would solve the problem. I use it as model (not last) for what the wooden last should be like.
I wouldn't use balloon and plaster. If you puncture the balloon, you have a mess. Anyway, plaster powder get into everything and it's another work to clean it up.
Rick,
Here is the pix:
\image {C:\Users\Joe\My Documents\shoe\IMG_0151 }
Joe
(Message edited by SrTango on November 12, 2010)
(Message edited by Srtango on November 12, 2010)
(Message edited by Srtango on November 12, 2010)
(Message edited by SrTango on November 12, 2010)
(Message edited by SrTango on November 12, 2010)
(Message edited by SrTango on November 12, 2010)
(Message edited by SrTango on November 12, 2010)
(Message edited by SrTango on November 12, 2010)
The clay I used is the regular clay you can get in craft store. They are reusable. The only drawback is the grease in the clay gets in your hands and therefore over the shoes. I don't know the consequence of that yet. Wrap the whole shoe with plastic that would solve the problem. I use it as model (not last) for what the wooden last should be like.
I wouldn't use balloon and plaster. If you puncture the balloon, you have a mess. Anyway, plaster powder get into everything and it's another work to clean it up.
Rick,
Here is the pix:
\image {C:\Users\Joe\My Documents\shoe\IMG_0151 }
Joe
(Message edited by SrTango on November 12, 2010)
(Message edited by Srtango on November 12, 2010)
(Message edited by Srtango on November 12, 2010)
(Message edited by SrTango on November 12, 2010)
(Message edited by SrTango on November 12, 2010)
(Message edited by SrTango on November 12, 2010)
(Message edited by SrTango on November 12, 2010)
(Message edited by SrTango on November 12, 2010)
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das
- Seanchaidh
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Re: One "Last" Question
Marlietta,
Glad you liked that. It is a matter of "design", or rather more a matter of "taste", BUT it is just a facet of last architecture that is (was formerly?) boldly manipulated to increase how tightly a low shoe's quarters clip onto the sides of the wearer's foot, especially when the heel-curve of the last cannot be adjusted for reasons stemming from the footwear's design or that customers' particular feet.
So, "How much does one clip the last starting from a blank block of wood and a foot in front of you to shape?"--caveat: I am not a lastmaker. The anecdotes first, please bear with me. As a boot & shoemaker since 1973 I have naturally had a keen interest in lasts, collected them, re-modeled and made them, but to me they are tools, a means to an end, and making them historically/traditionally was a separate profession from shoemaking.
After DW and others dragged me kicking and screaming into making "modern" 20thc. footwear--I cannot quite get past c.1920-30s myself, as it all went to Hell after that IMO--I created a crash course. I revisited and brain-picked all my West End/UK pals, shipping home suitcases of old W.E. lasts to study. I pestered bespoke lastmakers like Jim Bowman here in VA; Spring Line Lasts, N'ton,UK, even dragging the "Last Man', old Bob Whitton out of his retirement to pick his brain. I went out to MO and spent a week with Bill Tippit when he ran The Last Word. We drove down into the Ozarks to interview Bill's mentor (late) Wilson Schadeler, a generous and grand old man who started making lasts and models in St. Louis in the late 1920s. Add another week or so in Dallas under the guidance of Carl Lichte, and time in NYC at Sterling Last, and haunting Bill Klingbeil of Klingbeil Shoe Labs. Finally, toss in my museum-weenie background, studying, dating, and identifying antique footwear and lasts, making repros, etc. I even did last design and R&D for Red wing Shoe Co. All this is simply for background and context for where I'm coming at this from.
I really admire anybody in 2010 who wants to become a full-time traditional lastmaker. Like I said, it's truly an art in itself. Boot and shoemakers and lastmakers have had a strange, strained, relationship. To the lastmaker the last is their "creation", jealously created and defended. But to the B&S maker lasts are tools--not ends in themselves. Lastmakers get chided for "never having made shoes", and thus not fully understanding what we want. B&S makers get chided by lastmakers for not understanding all the requirements for last-making, and not knowing what we're talking about. Tippit was going to do a class once for custom B&S makers on what "you people" need to better understand about lasts/last-making, but I don't think that ever happened. So our trade-on-trade dialogue continues in its age-old awkwardness.
But back to your question.... How much to clip a last? How much to "swing" a last's bottom shape? How much to "twist" a last's seat vs. forepart planes as the heel height increases? How exaggerated to sculpt the "inside cone" instep ridge? How much higher to make the "ridge" vs. the "wall" at the sides of a toe? And a host of other questions I've chased far and wide, high and low, in books (old and new), in person, in museums and the filthy drawers and dark bins of every last model room and shoe shop I could find. The best answer came from Wilson Schaedler: "Al, those were details in last design that the old men dying in the 1920s only vaguely recalled, but are no longer fully understood". So you see we face having to do some forensics here--reverse engineering. The men who could teach us have all passed away, and with them their secrets and tricks. The guys whole blow you off with, "it's just design", etc., are covering up their own ignorance maybe? It's a journey of re-discovery, part detective-work, part archaeology and historical research. Many of us have had the luxury of having known and learned at the knees of some venerable old-timers, but sadly much of this learning is now, even with us, just an oral-tradition with all the vagaries and inconsistencies that implies.
So, my advice is, clip the lasts in as narrow as you tastefully can for a low long-quartered style if the heel-curve is closer to "dead", less if it's more curved. It won't hurt anything unless you weaken the last's comb to the point it breaks hammering on it, or it's too narrow to hold the thimble (if required), but moreover experimentation and exploration. You want to evolve a "signature" look for your lasts, but as well you must satisfy the B&S makers who are your clients and help them achieve the fit and look they desire. Their taste (or lack thereof) is the guide.
If you really want to make a study of this, you have to get out, travel, measure and study old lasts as a hobby-obsession. There are some fine ones around in museums and private collections: Van Pelt's, Redifer's, et al in the US, gold medal winners all. Then there are the UK and European lasts. Ferregamo had quite a rep. for great fitting women's lasts--I'm sure the Ferregamo museum in Italy has examples. The Bally Museum in Switzerland has archived co. samples going right back through the Golden Age. Some of Schaedler's women's last models from the '40s are pretty hot too.
As to clip, find the average or mean thickness for the style you're trying to (re)create from scratch and go from there. Like I said, I own and use lasts with islands no wider than 1/2" across, and hollow sides that look rather like this from the back: )__(, but this cannot be a "rule" for every last, or every style. It is, after all, "a matter of design"
Glad you liked that. It is a matter of "design", or rather more a matter of "taste", BUT it is just a facet of last architecture that is (was formerly?) boldly manipulated to increase how tightly a low shoe's quarters clip onto the sides of the wearer's foot, especially when the heel-curve of the last cannot be adjusted for reasons stemming from the footwear's design or that customers' particular feet.
So, "How much does one clip the last starting from a blank block of wood and a foot in front of you to shape?"--caveat: I am not a lastmaker. The anecdotes first, please bear with me. As a boot & shoemaker since 1973 I have naturally had a keen interest in lasts, collected them, re-modeled and made them, but to me they are tools, a means to an end, and making them historically/traditionally was a separate profession from shoemaking.
After DW and others dragged me kicking and screaming into making "modern" 20thc. footwear--I cannot quite get past c.1920-30s myself, as it all went to Hell after that IMO--I created a crash course. I revisited and brain-picked all my West End/UK pals, shipping home suitcases of old W.E. lasts to study. I pestered bespoke lastmakers like Jim Bowman here in VA; Spring Line Lasts, N'ton,UK, even dragging the "Last Man', old Bob Whitton out of his retirement to pick his brain. I went out to MO and spent a week with Bill Tippit when he ran The Last Word. We drove down into the Ozarks to interview Bill's mentor (late) Wilson Schadeler, a generous and grand old man who started making lasts and models in St. Louis in the late 1920s. Add another week or so in Dallas under the guidance of Carl Lichte, and time in NYC at Sterling Last, and haunting Bill Klingbeil of Klingbeil Shoe Labs. Finally, toss in my museum-weenie background, studying, dating, and identifying antique footwear and lasts, making repros, etc. I even did last design and R&D for Red wing Shoe Co. All this is simply for background and context for where I'm coming at this from.
I really admire anybody in 2010 who wants to become a full-time traditional lastmaker. Like I said, it's truly an art in itself. Boot and shoemakers and lastmakers have had a strange, strained, relationship. To the lastmaker the last is their "creation", jealously created and defended. But to the B&S maker lasts are tools--not ends in themselves. Lastmakers get chided for "never having made shoes", and thus not fully understanding what we want. B&S makers get chided by lastmakers for not understanding all the requirements for last-making, and not knowing what we're talking about. Tippit was going to do a class once for custom B&S makers on what "you people" need to better understand about lasts/last-making, but I don't think that ever happened. So our trade-on-trade dialogue continues in its age-old awkwardness.
But back to your question.... How much to clip a last? How much to "swing" a last's bottom shape? How much to "twist" a last's seat vs. forepart planes as the heel height increases? How exaggerated to sculpt the "inside cone" instep ridge? How much higher to make the "ridge" vs. the "wall" at the sides of a toe? And a host of other questions I've chased far and wide, high and low, in books (old and new), in person, in museums and the filthy drawers and dark bins of every last model room and shoe shop I could find. The best answer came from Wilson Schaedler: "Al, those were details in last design that the old men dying in the 1920s only vaguely recalled, but are no longer fully understood". So you see we face having to do some forensics here--reverse engineering. The men who could teach us have all passed away, and with them their secrets and tricks. The guys whole blow you off with, "it's just design", etc., are covering up their own ignorance maybe? It's a journey of re-discovery, part detective-work, part archaeology and historical research. Many of us have had the luxury of having known and learned at the knees of some venerable old-timers, but sadly much of this learning is now, even with us, just an oral-tradition with all the vagaries and inconsistencies that implies.
So, my advice is, clip the lasts in as narrow as you tastefully can for a low long-quartered style if the heel-curve is closer to "dead", less if it's more curved. It won't hurt anything unless you weaken the last's comb to the point it breaks hammering on it, or it's too narrow to hold the thimble (if required), but moreover experimentation and exploration. You want to evolve a "signature" look for your lasts, but as well you must satisfy the B&S makers who are your clients and help them achieve the fit and look they desire. Their taste (or lack thereof) is the guide.
If you really want to make a study of this, you have to get out, travel, measure and study old lasts as a hobby-obsession. There are some fine ones around in museums and private collections: Van Pelt's, Redifer's, et al in the US, gold medal winners all. Then there are the UK and European lasts. Ferregamo had quite a rep. for great fitting women's lasts--I'm sure the Ferregamo museum in Italy has examples. The Bally Museum in Switzerland has archived co. samples going right back through the Golden Age. Some of Schaedler's women's last models from the '40s are pretty hot too.
As to clip, find the average or mean thickness for the style you're trying to (re)create from scratch and go from there. Like I said, I own and use lasts with islands no wider than 1/2" across, and hollow sides that look rather like this from the back: )__(, but this cannot be a "rule" for every last, or every style. It is, after all, "a matter of design"
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srtango
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- Full Name: Joseph Hsiung
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Re: One "Last" Question
Somehow, I can't load the pix. I'm using Google Chrom.
Joe
(Message edited by SrTango on November 12, 2010)
Joe
(Message edited by SrTango on November 12, 2010)
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das
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Re: One "Last" Question
Marlietta,
Try Worldcat book search for a library that holds it, or have your local library try to get it on inter-library loan.
Try Worldcat book search for a library that holds it, or have your local library try to get it on inter-library loan.
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admin
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Re: One "Last" Question
People...
who are having trouble posting photos...
If you go to the left hand frame when you open the Forum you will see a rubric entitled "Formatting." Click on it. There you will find clear and concise instructions on how to post a photo....as well as much other useful information.
In short, the proper syntax is backslash, type of insertion (in this case an "image" ), curly bracket, name of file or other place holder (you could use the word "this" ), curly bracket...no spaces.
You do not need to provide a path. The software will prompt you to locate and select the file from local storage (your hard drive) before it is uploaded.
I might add it is critical that images be "resampled" to 640 pixels by 480 pixels at 72 dots per inch before being posted. Failure to do this--posting photos that display too big to be seen in their entirety in the right-hand frame are subject to immediate deletion.
Any imaging software will be able to resample photos for you. Free, downloadable programs such as JPegger can do it in one step and require no particular expertise.
There is also a test area on the forum for learning how to use the formatting provided with the forum software. For instance, posting photos there that are too big incurs no foul...they are all expected to be deleted anyway in time. and you don't need to go back editing and apologizing time and again for making a remark that is incomplete if only because the expected...hoped for...image does not appear.
This is all covered in the "Formatting" link in the left-hand frame...as well as numerous System Announcements...
Yr. Hmb. Svt.
(Message edited by admin on November 12, 2010)
who are having trouble posting photos...
If you go to the left hand frame when you open the Forum you will see a rubric entitled "Formatting." Click on it. There you will find clear and concise instructions on how to post a photo....as well as much other useful information.
In short, the proper syntax is backslash, type of insertion (in this case an "image" ), curly bracket, name of file or other place holder (you could use the word "this" ), curly bracket...no spaces.
You do not need to provide a path. The software will prompt you to locate and select the file from local storage (your hard drive) before it is uploaded.
I might add it is critical that images be "resampled" to 640 pixels by 480 pixels at 72 dots per inch before being posted. Failure to do this--posting photos that display too big to be seen in their entirety in the right-hand frame are subject to immediate deletion.
Any imaging software will be able to resample photos for you. Free, downloadable programs such as JPegger can do it in one step and require no particular expertise.
There is also a test area on the forum for learning how to use the formatting provided with the forum software. For instance, posting photos there that are too big incurs no foul...they are all expected to be deleted anyway in time. and you don't need to go back editing and apologizing time and again for making a remark that is incomplete if only because the expected...hoped for...image does not appear.
This is all covered in the "Formatting" link in the left-hand frame...as well as numerous System Announcements...
Yr. Hmb. Svt.
(Message edited by admin on November 12, 2010)
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srtango
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Re: One "Last" Question
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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srtango
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Re: One "Last" Question
Rick,
Here is the picture. You can add another screw to reinforce the integrity of the last.
Joe
Here is the picture. You can add another screw to reinforce the integrity of the last.
Joe
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courtney
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Re: One "Last" Question
Rookie tip of the week,
If you build up around the area where the hinge is and then add a spacer to the bottom, its probably a good idea to make a template of where the last opens so you can actually open it.
If you build up around the area where the hinge is and then add a spacer to the bottom, its probably a good idea to make a template of where the last opens so you can actually open it.
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trefor_owen
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Re: One "Last" Question
As a Clogmaker, I'm very much lurking in the background here but am also exceptionally confused!
Is there a Glossary of terms anywhere that I can use to understand fully the theories being expounded in this thread?
As a Clog maker (and I'm only learning just how different I am to the rest of you the more I read) I have different meanings to the terms you shoe people use...
Crimp/Crimping: this is the incised decoration on a clog upper, originally was the makers trade mark to distinguish their produce from the competitiors when there were lots of makers around.
Blocking: As since around the 1920's all clogs are built directly onto the sole over a last, and most makers dampen the leather before doing this, is this what is meant by Blocking and why is that not the term always used for moulding the shape of the upper?? Or do you not do that with every Shoe??
This next bit isnt correct as I cant find how to upload any photos!!
If someone will put in very simple .. do this, then do this, then do this stages, I will give it a go as I'm sure the old Trad lasts for clogging would scare the H*** out of you shoe makers!
I've put in a couple of photos of Traditional clog solid Lasts plus the spring lasts in current use.
The Cast (curve up of the toe, possibly the "Spring" of the toe???) has lowered over the years as it takes less wood....
The old last had the upper built onto it, then stripped off and re built onto the wooden sole.... now we build straight to the sole..
A confused (it doesnt take much) Clogmaker...
Trefor Owen Cymru
Is there a Glossary of terms anywhere that I can use to understand fully the theories being expounded in this thread?
As a Clog maker (and I'm only learning just how different I am to the rest of you the more I read) I have different meanings to the terms you shoe people use...
Crimp/Crimping: this is the incised decoration on a clog upper, originally was the makers trade mark to distinguish their produce from the competitiors when there were lots of makers around.
Blocking: As since around the 1920's all clogs are built directly onto the sole over a last, and most makers dampen the leather before doing this, is this what is meant by Blocking and why is that not the term always used for moulding the shape of the upper?? Or do you not do that with every Shoe??
This next bit isnt correct as I cant find how to upload any photos!!
If someone will put in very simple .. do this, then do this, then do this stages, I will give it a go as I'm sure the old Trad lasts for clogging would scare the H*** out of you shoe makers!
I've put in a couple of photos of Traditional clog solid Lasts plus the spring lasts in current use.
The Cast (curve up of the toe, possibly the "Spring" of the toe???) has lowered over the years as it takes less wood....
The old last had the upper built onto it, then stripped off and re built onto the wooden sole.... now we build straight to the sole..
A confused (it doesnt take much) Clogmaker...
Trefor Owen Cymru
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artzend
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Re: One "Last" Question
Trefor
Crimping is an American term for blocking which is used in England. I take it you make the sort of clogs they wear in the north of England and with a name like that, I assume, Wales.
Try the formatting link to describe the photo uploading thing.
Tim
www.shoemakingbook.com
Crimping is an American term for blocking which is used in England. I take it you make the sort of clogs they wear in the north of England and with a name like that, I assume, Wales.
Try the formatting link to describe the photo uploading thing.
Tim
www.shoemakingbook.com
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trefor_owen
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Re: One "Last" Question
Trad Clog Last:
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trefor_owen
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Re: One "Last" Question
Good grief, thats hard work.. is there no simpler way rather than having to understand using hyper text language etc 
!!!
And no I have no idea how to resize... After all , all I do is cut down trees and nail bits of dead animal to them for a living!
Trefor
!!! And no I have no idea how to resize... After all , all I do is cut down trees and nail bits of dead animal to them for a living!
Trefor
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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trefor_owen
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dearbone
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Re: One "Last" Question
Trefor,
Welcome,I am not good with the computer stuff either,But here is how Rob and DW coached me into up-loading pix.
Download Picasa 3 free download,than import your pictures from whatever program you are using,use the export key in Picasa 3 to re-size your pictures to 640 or 480 which will be good enough size for the forum.
Nasser
Welcome,I am not good with the computer stuff either,But here is how Rob and DW coached me into up-loading pix.
Download Picasa 3 free download,than import your pictures from whatever program you are using,use the export key in Picasa 3 to re-size your pictures to 640 or 480 which will be good enough size for the forum.
Nasser
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srtango
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das
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Re: One "Last" Question
Trefor,
Hi, Al Saguto here, the fellow your wife and son met in Virginia.
Terms and jargon are a real bugger I'm afraid there's no central glossary I know of. Some of this is the British-English vs. American-English "problem", and non-standard forms as well. In many cases Am.-English preserves older British usage than does current UK-English, e.g. we've called "stitch-down" construction stitch-down since the 1700s here, where the Brits adopted "veldtschoen" after their S. African adventures late 1800s onward.
My guess is that our term "crimping" derived from UK "cramping". Earliest (early 1800s) U.S. refs. are noun form for the boards used, simply called "crimps" or "boot crimps", like you might say "boot cramps" (U.S. clamps). The verb form, "crimping" came a bit later, ditto "crimping boards", and "crimping screws" etc. Some chaos is to be expected there, as blocked/crimped whole-front side-seamed boots were a "new" fad, and imported foreign fashion in the UK c.1790-1800, so new and made-up terms had to follow. Before c.1790s British boots were back-seamed, and had a tongue to the vamp that was bent up into shape with a strong "string", hence "bracing the tongues" (blocking/crimping) or even "stringing" were the terms used--no shaped boards yet.
U.S. English was heavily influenced by immigrant Germans (e.g. "shaft" rather than boot-leg), and Irish (e.g. "finder" rather than "grinder" for supplier of tools and such). But how "cobbler" and "shoemaker" got inverted meanings in New England in the late 1800s remains a mystery, but up there they got reversed.
I suppose any forceful, wet, pre-shaping of uppers before they are lasted (pulled onto the last) can be considered "blocking". When I tried clogs, I wet-lasted my uppers first. After they were bone dry, removed them from the last and tacked them to the soles. The toe spring of the lasts and the toe spring of the wood soles did not match exactly, so no other way I thought. "Cast", now there's a new one on me. Is that traditional UK clogmaker's term for "toe spring"?
Like cautious anthropologists exploring any new "tribe" in a remote land, let's not "infect" one another's languages before we fully understand it. Maybe a clog-makers-to-shoemaker's lexicon would be fun to do? As I understand it, and correct me here, British clogmaking was once far more wide spread that just Lancashire and the North, as we have thought of it since the late 1800s. Eveyln Vidgeon wrote a nice little monograph on clogs back in the 1970s, but I'm sure more research has been done since. R. Holme, the Chester herald, included wooden soled "Cloggs or Country-man's Shooes" in his 1688 book, and your trade has a venerable history stretching far beyond our current concepts. Tell us more. First U.S. ref. I have for proper clogs was a fellow in New Jersey, 1740s I think, who wrote his relative back home to send him some clogs to test-market. He got a load of second-hand shoe uppers "clogged" onto wood soles instead. The scheme was abandoned when he discovered nobody in N.J. who could make new clog soles to repair them. Few in the U.S. are familiar with clogs beyond the tiny souvenir "Lancashire" variety, with stamped black steel galosh-clasp "buckles" tourists brought home after steam ship travels in/out of Liverpool back around 1900. These repeatedly turn up in museums and on eBay here as some rare and exotic "colonial shoes", "slave's shoes", and other such nonsense.
Hi, Al Saguto here, the fellow your wife and son met in Virginia.
Terms and jargon are a real bugger I'm afraid there's no central glossary I know of. Some of this is the British-English vs. American-English "problem", and non-standard forms as well. In many cases Am.-English preserves older British usage than does current UK-English, e.g. we've called "stitch-down" construction stitch-down since the 1700s here, where the Brits adopted "veldtschoen" after their S. African adventures late 1800s onward.
My guess is that our term "crimping" derived from UK "cramping". Earliest (early 1800s) U.S. refs. are noun form for the boards used, simply called "crimps" or "boot crimps", like you might say "boot cramps" (U.S. clamps). The verb form, "crimping" came a bit later, ditto "crimping boards", and "crimping screws" etc. Some chaos is to be expected there, as blocked/crimped whole-front side-seamed boots were a "new" fad, and imported foreign fashion in the UK c.1790-1800, so new and made-up terms had to follow. Before c.1790s British boots were back-seamed, and had a tongue to the vamp that was bent up into shape with a strong "string", hence "bracing the tongues" (blocking/crimping) or even "stringing" were the terms used--no shaped boards yet.
U.S. English was heavily influenced by immigrant Germans (e.g. "shaft" rather than boot-leg), and Irish (e.g. "finder" rather than "grinder" for supplier of tools and such). But how "cobbler" and "shoemaker" got inverted meanings in New England in the late 1800s remains a mystery, but up there they got reversed.
I suppose any forceful, wet, pre-shaping of uppers before they are lasted (pulled onto the last) can be considered "blocking". When I tried clogs, I wet-lasted my uppers first. After they were bone dry, removed them from the last and tacked them to the soles. The toe spring of the lasts and the toe spring of the wood soles did not match exactly, so no other way I thought. "Cast", now there's a new one on me. Is that traditional UK clogmaker's term for "toe spring"?
Like cautious anthropologists exploring any new "tribe" in a remote land, let's not "infect" one another's languages before we fully understand it. Maybe a clog-makers-to-shoemaker's lexicon would be fun to do? As I understand it, and correct me here, British clogmaking was once far more wide spread that just Lancashire and the North, as we have thought of it since the late 1800s. Eveyln Vidgeon wrote a nice little monograph on clogs back in the 1970s, but I'm sure more research has been done since. R. Holme, the Chester herald, included wooden soled "Cloggs or Country-man's Shooes" in his 1688 book, and your trade has a venerable history stretching far beyond our current concepts. Tell us more. First U.S. ref. I have for proper clogs was a fellow in New Jersey, 1740s I think, who wrote his relative back home to send him some clogs to test-market. He got a load of second-hand shoe uppers "clogged" onto wood soles instead. The scheme was abandoned when he discovered nobody in N.J. who could make new clog soles to repair them. Few in the U.S. are familiar with clogs beyond the tiny souvenir "Lancashire" variety, with stamped black steel galosh-clasp "buckles" tourists brought home after steam ship travels in/out of Liverpool back around 1900. These repeatedly turn up in museums and on eBay here as some rare and exotic "colonial shoes", "slave's shoes", and other such nonsense.
-
last_maker
Re: One "Last" Question
Al,
your scholarly elequant ability to record what you know about the last and its design and its making is beguiling. As for me,to be able to come to this forum and ask questions and have people answer knowlegably is refreshing at best.
I wish I could have responded greatfully to you earlier, however, I do not get an oportunity to be near my computer often to write.
How much to "swing" a last's bottom shape? How much to "twist" a last's seat vs. forepart planes as the heel height increases? My first teacher ( now deceased), Ferdanando Mateo said, "follow the foot and you will never go wrong. After all it is that foot which will be wearing my shoes". We are only covering the feet, not recreating them!"
Footwear is fashion design. Fashion design is sculpture in motion. To infuse these with healthy functional footwear is my quest. it is also my quest to create a detailed written document on how one arrives at these different parts of the last. There is so much to remember when you are first learning to sculpt a last that balancing these things to remember with shaping a functional item for footwear to be formed on is challenging to say the least. To have a detailed document would be useful. Ferregamo was famous for his fit because he he measured and recorded the foot pair but he cast the foot first(Book: Hevenly soles refrence). Then he developed a pattern sutiable for his client, He draped the foot first for a pattern and then shaped his lasts based on what he saw he needed. I can not say that I have reached his level of excellence, yet I try, but like him, I take a cast of the foot to know it's archetecture. Luckly these days for mail order lasts there is the STS casting socks.
The stars of footwear design, I belive, is the bespoke B/S makers and the last is the tool to get them there. But with out the proper form, thier customers feet do not have the comfortable but also stylish function. The awkward relationship between lastmakers and B/S makers I wish was not to be so strained. Both are artisens in thier field.
Some of my hand last making ability is haulted NOT by unknowing, NOT by not having the experience but instead by a wild couriousity for what others have discovered. What others know that maybe I have missed, and a second guessing of maybe there is one morsal of info, that could improve what I already know. But all in all one must come to thier own conclusion as you have.
In addition to your other expose'I loved what you said about clipping in your second here:
_____________________________________________________________________
"it is just a facet of last architecture that is (was formerly?) boldly manipulated to increase how tightly a low shoe's quarters clip onto the sides of the wearer's foot, especially when the heel-curve of the last cannot be adjusted for reasons stemming from the footwear's design or that customers' particular feet. "
"So, my advice is, clip the lasts in as narrow as you tastefully can for a low long-quartered style if the heel-curve is closer to "dead", less if it's more curved. It won't hurt anything unless you weaken the last's comb to the point it breaks hammering on it, or it's too narrow to hold the thimble (if required), but moreover experimentation and exploration. You want to evolve a "signature" look for your lasts, but as well you must satisfy the B&S makers who are your clients and help them achieve the fit and look they desire. Their taste (or lack thereof) is the guide."
___________________________________________________________________
that is so perfect I could add no more to what clipping the last means! It is as though I can relax and just clip away with out wondering... But you are right, on the other hand, it is up to the footwear designer what they want the footwear to do, feel and behave for my hands to be under thier direction, as a last maker, is to help thier footwear designs and making go smoother and realize thier footwear final product. However, because one utilizes so much time shaping and sculpting it is easy to get personally attatched.
I truely admire any B/S maker that made such as quest as yours to find out about that last. I love your advice on how you arrived at knowing more. I wish I had more freedom to travel. One thing that cut my last making travel research short when I first was apprentencing was, I became pregnant with my first child. Although 6 now, it limits my ability to travel for familial and her educational reasons. However, if there was a place where I could borrow lasts- check them out and get thier cross sections to recreate them or get thier cross sections sent to me by taking the length of the last and dividing it into 12 and getting thier cross sections of 1/12th the length all the way down the last from heel to toe and then return them this would help me greatly.
My typical variance of clipping the last is 20-30 degrees above the transition line( the top of the calcaneaus) on the eliptical curve. I find it interesting that not many besides you have reponded to this question as to what they do. However, from your comments, it has become clear to me that you really know what you are talking about. So thank you very much for responding and giving me further things to think about , but more so,...... simply relax, design, and sculpt away!
Good day to you Sir!
-Marlietta
Lastmakingschool.com
your scholarly elequant ability to record what you know about the last and its design and its making is beguiling. As for me,to be able to come to this forum and ask questions and have people answer knowlegably is refreshing at best.
I wish I could have responded greatfully to you earlier, however, I do not get an oportunity to be near my computer often to write.
How much to "swing" a last's bottom shape? How much to "twist" a last's seat vs. forepart planes as the heel height increases? My first teacher ( now deceased), Ferdanando Mateo said, "follow the foot and you will never go wrong. After all it is that foot which will be wearing my shoes". We are only covering the feet, not recreating them!"
Footwear is fashion design. Fashion design is sculpture in motion. To infuse these with healthy functional footwear is my quest. it is also my quest to create a detailed written document on how one arrives at these different parts of the last. There is so much to remember when you are first learning to sculpt a last that balancing these things to remember with shaping a functional item for footwear to be formed on is challenging to say the least. To have a detailed document would be useful. Ferregamo was famous for his fit because he he measured and recorded the foot pair but he cast the foot first(Book: Hevenly soles refrence). Then he developed a pattern sutiable for his client, He draped the foot first for a pattern and then shaped his lasts based on what he saw he needed. I can not say that I have reached his level of excellence, yet I try, but like him, I take a cast of the foot to know it's archetecture. Luckly these days for mail order lasts there is the STS casting socks.
The stars of footwear design, I belive, is the bespoke B/S makers and the last is the tool to get them there. But with out the proper form, thier customers feet do not have the comfortable but also stylish function. The awkward relationship between lastmakers and B/S makers I wish was not to be so strained. Both are artisens in thier field.
Some of my hand last making ability is haulted NOT by unknowing, NOT by not having the experience but instead by a wild couriousity for what others have discovered. What others know that maybe I have missed, and a second guessing of maybe there is one morsal of info, that could improve what I already know. But all in all one must come to thier own conclusion as you have.
In addition to your other expose'I loved what you said about clipping in your second here:
_____________________________________________________________________
"it is just a facet of last architecture that is (was formerly?) boldly manipulated to increase how tightly a low shoe's quarters clip onto the sides of the wearer's foot, especially when the heel-curve of the last cannot be adjusted for reasons stemming from the footwear's design or that customers' particular feet. "
"So, my advice is, clip the lasts in as narrow as you tastefully can for a low long-quartered style if the heel-curve is closer to "dead", less if it's more curved. It won't hurt anything unless you weaken the last's comb to the point it breaks hammering on it, or it's too narrow to hold the thimble (if required), but moreover experimentation and exploration. You want to evolve a "signature" look for your lasts, but as well you must satisfy the B&S makers who are your clients and help them achieve the fit and look they desire. Their taste (or lack thereof) is the guide."
___________________________________________________________________
that is so perfect I could add no more to what clipping the last means
! It is as though I can relax and just clip away with out wondering... But you are right, on the other hand, it is up to the footwear designer what they want the footwear to do, feel and behave for my hands to be under thier direction, as a last maker, is to help thier footwear designs and making go smoother and realize thier footwear final product. However, because one utilizes so much time shaping and sculpting it is easy to get personally attatched. I truely admire any B/S maker that made such as quest as yours to find out about that last. I love your advice on how you arrived at knowing more. I wish I had more freedom to travel. One thing that cut my last making travel research short when I first was apprentencing was, I became pregnant with my first child. Although 6 now, it limits my ability to travel for familial and her educational reasons. However, if there was a place where I could borrow lasts- check them out and get thier cross sections to recreate them or get thier cross sections sent to me by taking the length of the last and dividing it into 12 and getting thier cross sections of 1/12th the length all the way down the last from heel to toe and then return them this would help me greatly.
My typical variance of clipping the last is 20-30 degrees above the transition line( the top of the calcaneaus) on the eliptical curve. I find it interesting that not many besides you have reponded to this question as to what they do. However, from your comments, it has become clear to me that you really know what you are talking about. So thank you very much for responding and giving me further things to think about , but more so,...... simply relax, design, and sculpt away!
Good day to you Sir!
-Marlietta
Lastmakingschool.com
-
last_maker
Re: One "Last" Question
Who is the HCC Reprint coordinator now? and how can I get ahold of Him/Her???
In a post a year or two ago, Al was talking to someone else about getting this book:
The Tebbutt book is: Last Making and Last Measurement; (London,1889) by Albert E. Tebbutt.
and mentions that one can obtain a reprint from the HCC coordinator??? is this true???
I did a worldcat search and one came up available at British Library, The
St. Pancras
However, when calling them, they do not have it on record of having it. I did a google and book search for it too, of no avail. So I am hopeful that the HCC library has it????? and I could get a Reprint if not a PDF???? PDF preferred. That would be greatly appreciated.
Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
-Marlietta
In a post a year or two ago, Al was talking to someone else about getting this book:
The Tebbutt book is: Last Making and Last Measurement; (London,1889) by Albert E. Tebbutt.
and mentions that one can obtain a reprint from the HCC coordinator??? is this true???
I did a worldcat search and one came up available at British Library, The
St. Pancras
However, when calling them, they do not have it on record of having it. I did a google and book search for it too, of no avail. So I am hopeful that the HCC library has it????? and I could get a Reprint if not a PDF???? PDF preferred. That would be greatly appreciated.
Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
-Marlietta
-
das
- Seanchaidh
- Posts: 1635
- Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2000 9:00 am
- Full Name: D.A. Saguto--HCC
- Has Liked: 149 times
- Been Liked: 136 times
Re: One "Last" Question
Marlietta,
Thank you for your kind words, you asked a fine question and not seeing any replies I just decided to.....
"Follow the foot" was good advice; however, as lasts are a stylized departure from the foot's shape (unless you make 1:1 plaster cast lasts), these decisions must be faced. "Swing", "twist", etc. need not "follow" matching the foot exactly, so the question in my mind has ever been, how much can the foot and nature be ignored case by case. Not every last can be "swung" to an anatomically correct "inflared" shape, especially if the foot is bunionized already; not every heel-seat can be "twisted" up medially to match the rear foot's plantar plane at, say, a 1 1/2" heel. How much to heed, how much to compromise? It's all brinkmanship, but yes, "relax, experiment, and sculpt away" is exactly what I've resorted to myself.
When it gets hairy is making a "good" last model for a production run of hundreds or thousands of lasts. One-off custom jobs are easy to tweak to that customer's feet--generics for mass production scare the crap out of me.
If you ever make it out east, I'd be glad to show you my last collection. But you'll need to travel to see all the good classic stuff. hiding hither, thither, and yon.
Thank you for your kind words, you asked a fine question and not seeing any replies I just decided to.....
"Follow the foot" was good advice; however, as lasts are a stylized departure from the foot's shape (unless you make 1:1 plaster cast lasts), these decisions must be faced. "Swing", "twist", etc. need not "follow" matching the foot exactly, so the question in my mind has ever been, how much can the foot and nature be ignored case by case. Not every last can be "swung" to an anatomically correct "inflared" shape, especially if the foot is bunionized already; not every heel-seat can be "twisted" up medially to match the rear foot's plantar plane at, say, a 1 1/2" heel. How much to heed, how much to compromise? It's all brinkmanship, but yes, "relax, experiment, and sculpt away" is exactly what I've resorted to myself.
When it gets hairy is making a "good" last model for a production run of hundreds or thousands of lasts. One-off custom jobs are easy to tweak to that customer's feet--generics for mass production scare the crap out of me.
If you ever make it out east, I'd be glad to show you my last collection. But you'll need to travel to see all the good classic stuff. hiding hither, thither, and yon.
-
srtango
- 1
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:00 am
- Full Name: Joseph Hsiung
- Location: Danbury, CT
Re: One "Last" Question
Al,
With my short experience making last, it certainly is challenging to see how the shoes will come off the last and looks good while it fit all the element of the foot. I'm sure there are more rules that should be followed in order to achieve certain shape, like the clipping for of open top. As for mass production, they come up with the parameters to follow in order to accommodate the majority.
When it comes to custom-made business, I find it more troublesome. Making last for every style per customer is a major work. Not just a good jack of all trades is a must, the artistic presentation is also required. When I heard that the output is one pair per week, I wonder how viable the business is.
I would like to see your last collection. Where are you located?
Joe
With my short experience making last, it certainly is challenging to see how the shoes will come off the last and looks good while it fit all the element of the foot. I'm sure there are more rules that should be followed in order to achieve certain shape, like the clipping for of open top. As for mass production, they come up with the parameters to follow in order to accommodate the majority.
When it comes to custom-made business, I find it more troublesome. Making last for every style per customer is a major work. Not just a good jack of all trades is a must, the artistic presentation is also required. When I heard that the output is one pair per week, I wonder how viable the business is.
I would like to see your last collection. Where are you located?
Joe
-
last_maker
Re: One "Last" Question
Al
You are welcome! It is fun to talk shop with someone who understands lasts. I am
emarrased to admit, but, I am kind of a last nerd.
___________________________________________________________________
"Follow the foot" was good advice; however, as lasts are a stylized departure from the foot's shape (unless you make 1:1 plaster cast lasts),
____________________________________________________________________
I think with all classically trained model makers (I can't say this for sure) but the presumption is always that the foot is not the last, but as you say a stylized version of a foot in a B/S shape. HOWEVER, since you are manufaturing a last for that foot, following it as a foundation to your efforts makes the most sence.
_____________________________________________________________________
"Swing", "twist", etc. need not "follow" matching the foot exactly, so the question in my mind has ever been, how much can the foot and nature be ignored case by case?"
_______________________________________________________________________
For a healthy foot, always, always, always, always, follow the swing of the foot! Once you follow the swing, you can deviate by 1 or 2 degrees laterally or medially to achieve the design you desire. However, twist to direct the stride. So yes, you follow the foot, but then as a model maker, you have to make style decisions based on how you want the footwear to appear and fuction.
_______________________________________________________________________
"Not every last can be "swung" to an natomically correct "inflared" shape, especially if the foot is bunionized already"
_______________________________________________________________________
By default, I was forced to study ped orthy and foot surgery. In such a profession is where I found the answer to this question. "How much to swing a last with a foot that has a bunion. Now this is not to say that I can perform live foot surgery, nor would I want to. It is a gross but necessary profession, however, for shoes to which a person has a bunion, you cast the foot to make a one to one plaster foot model. Use plaster bandages as the mould. Once you have a foot model, you cut up the plaster model as if you are doing foot surgery to correct a bunion, but you do not correct the extra width of the foot that the bunion creates or the size of the deformed joint. Reposition the toe and fill. Once you have finished re-organizing the foot, then you can see the foot for what it would be in a healthy position and then make the last with the proper swing based on the healthy position.
Unlike modern ped orthic casting, I was not taught to cast the foot in the heel higth position it was going to be in the last. Unless someone is very good at this, it creates a mushy toe spring and not always accurate,. There is a defined heel to toe spring information that model makers use. When a foot is wrapped with a plaster bandage and placed on a heel hight elation block, the thickness of the plaster bandaged foot deviates this toe spring and it cannot be adjusted to the millimeters that are necessary for heels. In addition, it is impossible to cast the foot in a rocker sole position for soles such as wooden soles, running shoes or any other rocker sole type of boot or shoe such as the classical cowboy boot. Therefore, the foot model was STRICTLY FOR REFERENCE ONLY!! Once the foot model that HAD a bunion has been manipulated, Follow the normal last making procedures of making a sole shape based on the new position of the foot with out a bunion, make a profile and the like.
This is an old "secret" technique that I learned. It was supposed to be closely guarded one by the couture ladies' fashion shoe lasts makers. I assume one could do the same for men's shoes and boots too. Some beginning forming bunions can be manipulated to stop further deformity and the two little bones under the head of the first met can be repositioned healthily by manual chiropractic foot manipulation. Therefore, before we made couture ladies last they were sent for a series of foot manipulations to see how much correction could be made. Then the foot was cast and the last was made.
______________________________________________________________________
"not every heel-seat can be "twisted" up medially to match the rear foot's plantar plane at, say, a 1 1/2" heel. How much to heed, how much to compromise?"
_______________________________________________________________________
I was taught to first trust the foot, than if there are corrections to be made, do so conservatively. Twist, helps gait to be achieved with out falling from one side or the other. It directs the foot to heel strick, first, supinate roll and then pronate to then toe off. Part of model making is envisioning what you want the foot to do with the footwear on the foot. It allows the foot to continue with a balanced stride. There is a chart somewhere out there heel height to twist relationship.
So the engineering of twist assists in heel strike, supinate, pronate toe off stride. When you have a heel of 1 ½" (36mm) the amount of gravity distribution is equal thus from 0-1 ½" twist ball break to heel twist plays a very important part in proper gait cycle. However, from 1 ½" heel higher this is when is walking on the fat pads of the metatarsal joints. Twist redirects the foot to stop walking on the first met head and redistribute it over the other joints as much as possible.
If you look at a natural relaxed foot poking out at you from a person lying prone down on a table, place the relaxed foot in a 90-degree plane from the tibia. Observe the curvature at the bottom of the fat pads. You will see its roll. You take an impression of this roll and it's degree of roll medial to lateral. This roll is your variance to your limitations in the custom last. You can balance it to center; you can redirect it to the outside, or redirect it based on the walk of the individual. This roll curvature will tell you how much to twist at the ball.
_______________________________________________________________________
"When it gets hairy is making a "good" last model for a production run of hundreds or thousands of lasts."
_______________________________________________________________________
Yep, I have never done that! I understand the concept of production last but today's shoemaster, delcam, Romans and several others soft wear already has this area well covered. I have tweaked a model or added a design feature but this is not engineering a new lasts. The beauty of these software programs is that They can already configure the model run for you. You don't have to. So the hand model run technique is antiquated at best. In the softwear, you can pick from a full library of lasts and send it to a cam to be manufactured.
However, considering how many lasts have been copied to manufacturers in the last 100 years or so, I wonder how many custom model makers' lasts made it into production. HUMMMMM????
_______________________________________________________________________
One-off custom jobs are easy to tweak to that customer's feet--generics for mass production scare the crap out of me.
_______________________________________________________________________
I agree entirely. It is why I soak in the bespoke arena. For hand modeled lasts. The information I need is from the foot and the foot model to make a last.
HAVE A GOOD DAY!
-Marlietta
Lastmakingschool.com
(Message edited by Last_maker on November 17, 2010)
(Message edited by Last_maker on November 17, 2010)
You are welcome! It is fun to talk shop with someone who understands lasts. I am
emarrased to admit, but, I am kind of a last nerd. ___________________________________________________________________
"Follow the foot" was good advice; however, as lasts are a stylized departure from the foot's shape (unless you make 1:1 plaster cast lasts),
____________________________________________________________________
I think with all classically trained model makers (I can't say this for sure) but the presumption is always that the foot is not the last, but as you say a stylized version of a foot in a B/S shape. HOWEVER, since you are manufaturing a last for that foot, following it as a foundation to your efforts makes the most sence.
_____________________________________________________________________
"Swing", "twist", etc. need not "follow" matching the foot exactly, so the question in my mind has ever been, how much can the foot and nature be ignored case by case?"
_______________________________________________________________________
For a healthy foot, always, always, always, always, follow the swing of the foot! Once you follow the swing, you can deviate by 1 or 2 degrees laterally or medially to achieve the design you desire. However, twist to direct the stride. So yes, you follow the foot, but then as a model maker, you have to make style decisions based on how you want the footwear to appear and fuction.
_______________________________________________________________________
"Not every last can be "swung" to an natomically correct "inflared" shape, especially if the foot is bunionized already"
_______________________________________________________________________
By default, I was forced to study ped orthy and foot surgery. In such a profession is where I found the answer to this question. "How much to swing a last with a foot that has a bunion. Now this is not to say that I can perform live foot surgery, nor would I want to. It is a gross but necessary profession, however, for shoes to which a person has a bunion, you cast the foot to make a one to one plaster foot model. Use plaster bandages as the mould. Once you have a foot model, you cut up the plaster model as if you are doing foot surgery to correct a bunion, but you do not correct the extra width of the foot that the bunion creates or the size of the deformed joint. Reposition the toe and fill. Once you have finished re-organizing the foot, then you can see the foot for what it would be in a healthy position and then make the last with the proper swing based on the healthy position.
Unlike modern ped orthic casting, I was not taught to cast the foot in the heel higth position it was going to be in the last. Unless someone is very good at this, it creates a mushy toe spring and not always accurate,. There is a defined heel to toe spring information that model makers use. When a foot is wrapped with a plaster bandage and placed on a heel hight elation block, the thickness of the plaster bandaged foot deviates this toe spring and it cannot be adjusted to the millimeters that are necessary for heels. In addition, it is impossible to cast the foot in a rocker sole position for soles such as wooden soles, running shoes or any other rocker sole type of boot or shoe such as the classical cowboy boot. Therefore, the foot model was STRICTLY FOR REFERENCE ONLY!! Once the foot model that HAD a bunion has been manipulated, Follow the normal last making procedures of making a sole shape based on the new position of the foot with out a bunion, make a profile and the like.
This is an old "secret" technique that I learned. It was supposed to be closely guarded one by the couture ladies' fashion shoe lasts makers. I assume one could do the same for men's shoes and boots too. Some beginning forming bunions can be manipulated to stop further deformity and the two little bones under the head of the first met can be repositioned healthily by manual chiropractic foot manipulation. Therefore, before we made couture ladies last they were sent for a series of foot manipulations to see how much correction could be made. Then the foot was cast and the last was made.
______________________________________________________________________
"not every heel-seat can be "twisted" up medially to match the rear foot's plantar plane at, say, a 1 1/2" heel. How much to heed, how much to compromise?"
_______________________________________________________________________
I was taught to first trust the foot, than if there are corrections to be made, do so conservatively. Twist, helps gait to be achieved with out falling from one side or the other. It directs the foot to heel strick, first, supinate roll and then pronate to then toe off. Part of model making is envisioning what you want the foot to do with the footwear on the foot. It allows the foot to continue with a balanced stride. There is a chart somewhere out there heel height to twist relationship.
So the engineering of twist assists in heel strike, supinate, pronate toe off stride. When you have a heel of 1 ½" (36mm) the amount of gravity distribution is equal thus from 0-1 ½" twist ball break to heel twist plays a very important part in proper gait cycle. However, from 1 ½" heel higher this is when is walking on the fat pads of the metatarsal joints. Twist redirects the foot to stop walking on the first met head and redistribute it over the other joints as much as possible.
If you look at a natural relaxed foot poking out at you from a person lying prone down on a table, place the relaxed foot in a 90-degree plane from the tibia. Observe the curvature at the bottom of the fat pads. You will see its roll. You take an impression of this roll and it's degree of roll medial to lateral. This roll is your variance to your limitations in the custom last. You can balance it to center; you can redirect it to the outside, or redirect it based on the walk of the individual. This roll curvature will tell you how much to twist at the ball.
_______________________________________________________________________
"When it gets hairy is making a "good" last model for a production run of hundreds or thousands of lasts."
_______________________________________________________________________
Yep, I have never done that! I understand the concept of production last but today's shoemaster, delcam, Romans and several others soft wear already has this area well covered. I have tweaked a model or added a design feature but this is not engineering a new lasts. The beauty of these software programs is that They can already configure the model run for you. You don't have to. So the hand model run technique is antiquated at best. In the softwear, you can pick from a full library of lasts and send it to a cam to be manufactured.
However, considering how many lasts have been copied to manufacturers in the last 100 years or so, I wonder how many custom model makers' lasts made it into production. HUMMMMM????
_______________________________________________________________________
One-off custom jobs are easy to tweak to that customer's feet--generics for mass production scare the crap out of me.
_______________________________________________________________________
I agree entirely. It is why I soak in the bespoke arena. For hand modeled lasts. The information I need is from the foot and the foot model to make a last.
HAVE A GOOD DAY!
-Marlietta
Lastmakingschool.com
(Message edited by Last_maker on November 17, 2010)
(Message edited by Last_maker on November 17, 2010)
-
das
- Seanchaidh
- Posts: 1635
- Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2000 9:00 am
- Full Name: D.A. Saguto--HCC
- Has Liked: 149 times
- Been Liked: 136 times
Re: One "Last" Question
Marlietta,
Great reply. Thanks.
I'm with you 100% that we have to fit what's there, following foot shape, etc.
But let's take "swing"--tracings, ink imprints, even plaster casts are usually made with the foot flat on the ground; however, as the heel height is raised the great toe moves laterally, incrementally "X" degrees for every "Y" (Korn gave 1/8" increments I recall) of heel height towards the 2nd toe, decreasing the "swing" becoming a more "neutral" shape. If I make or fit-up a last to agree with the customer's foot's "swing" when flat, then add a heel, there's now too much "swing". Thoughts?
In any mildly bunionized feet (so-called "neutral" or "outflare" shapes), IOW c.85+% of feet--if we agree that the 1st met group ought to be a straight line that continues straight through the great toe, with no deflection at the joint, like a baby's foot--the old school approach was to just build the last up/out at the swollen joint. To me this seemed bass-ackward, as by creating a bulging pocket in the vamp for the enlarged joint to settle into would allow the joint to move medially, clipping the great toe more with the upper, and exacerbating the problem. In all events I want to give the great toe room to move back to its natural position without further clipping it. If the great toe has any strength, and forces its own way, either the vamp deforms into a bulge made by the toe (spoiling design/shape), or the wearer's heel tries to walk-over the heel medially, deforming the stiffener/counter trying to escape the straightness of the last/footwear (again spoiling the design/shape).
Thanks for sharing your "secret" too, definitely food for thought.
OK, now to"twist"--as the heel of the foot is raised (in gait or by an elevated heel), flexing across the angle (variable) of the met heads/joints, the medial side of the heel raises higher "faster" than the lateral side. Some really good lasts reflect this by mimicking this "twist". But a tilted heel-seat plane is hell in machine lasting to build a shoe on, and even bespoke makers whine and moan because it necessitates added care in making the heel-seat, and then the heel, to avoid the cosmetic "problem" of a finished heel that's higher medially than it is laterally. Factory lasts often have insufficient "twist", or none at all, so when the shoe is on it effectively thrusts upward under the lateral side of the heel, inducing the foot to pronate, dumping all its weight onto the medial side. Again, this bugs me because we know the lateral side is the "stronger" weight-bearing side of the foot, and flat un-twisted lasts (and footwear made on them) shoves everything onto the weaker medial side, overloading the 1st met head/joint and other evils. Again, it's a control-factor that must be adjusted, and IMO no last's heel-seat transverse plane ought to be dead flat, in the same plane as the transverse plane in the forepart. (Ouuu, rough sentence, but I hope you get what I meant).
There are some splendid old lasts out there, designed by folks who knew their trade and who controlled all of these factors like we adjust the vol., bass, treble, on a hi-fi. I'm just afraid it's a matter of "lost" skills that we have to recreate, first by being able to "read" the old lasts, then by systematic analysis of which "knob" affects what sound coloration, and then how to dial-in the knobs to get the sound just right.
If I ever make computers my friends, all this CAD stuff might become a boon. In the mean time, give me a hunk of wood, a sharp rasp, and sit me in the corner. When machines came into our trade in a big way, the best machine operatives were the former hand-sewn men, as they know the mechanics of a good strong and balanced seam, etc., IOW what the machine was attempting to mimic. They set the standards for the first generations of machine-only shoemakers, but now, a 100 years on, much has been forgotten and standards have slipped. Maybe if I got into CAD I'd be half-dangerous in the last world *Bwahahahaha* ?????
Great reply. Thanks.
I'm with you 100% that we have to fit what's there, following foot shape, etc.
But let's take "swing"--tracings, ink imprints, even plaster casts are usually made with the foot flat on the ground; however, as the heel height is raised the great toe moves laterally, incrementally "X" degrees for every "Y" (Korn gave 1/8" increments I recall) of heel height towards the 2nd toe, decreasing the "swing" becoming a more "neutral" shape. If I make or fit-up a last to agree with the customer's foot's "swing" when flat, then add a heel, there's now too much "swing". Thoughts?
In any mildly bunionized feet (so-called "neutral" or "outflare" shapes), IOW c.85+% of feet--if we agree that the 1st met group ought to be a straight line that continues straight through the great toe, with no deflection at the joint, like a baby's foot--the old school approach was to just build the last up/out at the swollen joint. To me this seemed bass-ackward, as by creating a bulging pocket in the vamp for the enlarged joint to settle into would allow the joint to move medially, clipping the great toe more with the upper, and exacerbating the problem. In all events I want to give the great toe room to move back to its natural position without further clipping it. If the great toe has any strength, and forces its own way, either the vamp deforms into a bulge made by the toe (spoiling design/shape), or the wearer's heel tries to walk-over the heel medially, deforming the stiffener/counter trying to escape the straightness of the last/footwear (again spoiling the design/shape).
Thanks for sharing your "secret" too, definitely food for thought.
OK, now to"twist"--as the heel of the foot is raised (in gait or by an elevated heel), flexing across the angle (variable) of the met heads/joints, the medial side of the heel raises higher "faster" than the lateral side. Some really good lasts reflect this by mimicking this "twist". But a tilted heel-seat plane is hell in machine lasting to build a shoe on, and even bespoke makers whine and moan because it necessitates added care in making the heel-seat, and then the heel, to avoid the cosmetic "problem" of a finished heel that's higher medially than it is laterally. Factory lasts often have insufficient "twist", or none at all, so when the shoe is on it effectively thrusts upward under the lateral side of the heel, inducing the foot to pronate, dumping all its weight onto the medial side. Again, this bugs me because we know the lateral side is the "stronger" weight-bearing side of the foot, and flat un-twisted lasts (and footwear made on them) shoves everything onto the weaker medial side, overloading the 1st met head/joint and other evils. Again, it's a control-factor that must be adjusted, and IMO no last's heel-seat transverse plane ought to be dead flat, in the same plane as the transverse plane in the forepart. (Ouuu, rough sentence, but I hope you get what I meant).
There are some splendid old lasts out there, designed by folks who knew their trade and who controlled all of these factors like we adjust the vol., bass, treble, on a hi-fi. I'm just afraid it's a matter of "lost" skills that we have to recreate, first by being able to "read" the old lasts, then by systematic analysis of which "knob" affects what sound coloration, and then how to dial-in the knobs to get the sound just right.
If I ever make computers my friends, all this CAD stuff might become a boon. In the mean time, give me a hunk of wood, a sharp rasp, and sit me in the corner. When machines came into our trade in a big way, the best machine operatives were the former hand-sewn men, as they know the mechanics of a good strong and balanced seam, etc., IOW what the machine was attempting to mimic. They set the standards for the first generations of machine-only shoemakers, but now, a 100 years on, much has been forgotten and standards have slipped. Maybe if I got into CAD I'd be half-dangerous in the last world *Bwahahahaha* ?????
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Re: One "Last" Question
Al,
Merlot? A splash of Pouilly-Fousse, prhaps?
So...how does one overcome that "cosmetic problem?" Call it "dumb old bootmaker" but I have brooded about, meditated over, and worried to death the mechanics of putting a level heel on a last that is 'twisted' and have no clue how it can be done short of throwing the balance of the forepart off to the medial side. Where the proper balance point might be just under the Line of Muscular Action (between the first and second met head), in order to put a balanced, somewhat level, heel on the shoe the forepart balance has to shift medially to a point more nearly under the first met head.
OK but once you go down that road there's no apparent control. No standard. Any shape, size, angle of the transverse plane becomes acceptable.
I'm not doubting you...I don't know enough to doubt you...but I haven't seen tilted heel seats even on the exemplars of bespoke shoemaking.
And if I'm not seeing it there must be some way to compensate. So...??
Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member
even bespoke makers whine and moan because it necessitates added care in making the heel-seat, and then the heel, to avoid the cosmetic "problem" of a finished heel that's higher medially than it is laterally.
Merlot? A splash of Pouilly-Fousse, prhaps?
So...how does one overcome that "cosmetic problem?" Call it "dumb old bootmaker" but I have brooded about, meditated over, and worried to death the mechanics of putting a level heel on a last that is 'twisted' and have no clue how it can be done short of throwing the balance of the forepart off to the medial side. Where the proper balance point might be just under the Line of Muscular Action (between the first and second met head), in order to put a balanced, somewhat level, heel on the shoe the forepart balance has to shift medially to a point more nearly under the first met head.
IMO no last's heel-seat transverse plane ought to be dead flat, in the same plane as the transverse plane in the forepart
OK but once you go down that road there's no apparent control. No standard. Any shape, size, angle of the transverse plane becomes acceptable.
I'm not doubting you...I don't know enough to doubt you...but I haven't seen tilted heel seats even on the exemplars of bespoke shoemaking.
And if I'm not seeing it there must be some way to compensate. So...??
Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member