One "Last" Question

[last_maker]

Andre, I have an idea.

comming from the view point of moulding.
1 You could trace the foot indended for the sandle as a sole shape.
2. With that you could use oil clay like roma plastlina, kids art clay or even water clay. cut the shape to the foot.
3. build the triangle around the thong area, and toe support.

4. Make a plaster mould of your clay.

5. remove the clay,

6. Use mold soap and brush on a layer of mold soap.

7. Pour plaster in your plaster mould and remove the plaster positve you just poured once it sets up.

Or.
If you are adept with working with plaster you can skip the clay step and mix plaster to a clay like consistancy and when it has set up to soft but non movable consistancy, place on a milimene board, and cut out your sole shape. allow to contiue to harden.

Mix a little more plaster to clay like consistancy and add in the areas desired for the hump like triangle around in between the first and second toe that continues to support the void of the toes. shape as desired. If a little rough no big deal as plaster drys it becomes sandable. You can do your fine shaping with different grits of sand paper.

Next soak your leather insole, in very hot water, .

Utilizing a plastic zip lock bag, cut a hole in one of the corners. Now wilt over your positive plaster form.Place both the leather and the plaster form together in the zip loc bag

Slip a rubber band over the hole you made in one of the corners.

With a household vacume, place the skinny nozzle in the bag and rubber band the plastic bag to the nozzel real tight. Turn on the vacume! until all air is sucked. Leave for about one hour or until the heat of the soaked leather leaves.

Remove from bag and plaster form. Stuff the underside of the triangle void with cork, string, leather scrap or pourable vinal ridid foam.

Then make the sandle sole as desired. Probably following up the under side of the leather insole with bircacork might be a good idea.

Again, if you can work with plaster in the positive it will save you lots of time from shaping, moulding and remoulding the same object to get a plaster positive form to mould over. If you do not want to use plaster as the positive you can go to smooth on and get pourable plastic to make your positive out of but that would mean you are back to shaping in clay and making a mould and then pouring into that mould.

A nice cushiony alternitive to the positive would be to pour silicone into your plaster mould made from your clay. and thus the positive remains with the sandle. You simple vacume over the silicone or Polyurethane rubber positive the leather and they together become a unit. Sole the sandle as desired.

any way that is my two bits.

Marlietta

http://lastmakingschool.com/classes/Intermediate%20Last%20Making.htm

[last_maker]

courtney,

In our last making classes we do nothing but a lot of casting. http://lastmakingschool.com/classes/Intermediate%20Last%20Making.htm

I teach this part of the classes. On a personal note, I do sculptural art that requires making moulds. Thus, I can assist you in your question on duplicating your last.I have wilson gracey's video on last duplication.

Contact me at designstudios@hotmail.com. We can have a discussion regarding your questions on moulding and see if I can help you.

-Marlietta

[andre]

@Tim,
yes shaping the last was also my first idea, but I can imagine what a nightmare of work that would be, so better avoid this, because it's not for orthopedic purpose.
@ Marlietta
thanks for the guide. I agree with you, that's how it could work, my wife is good with clay, I may can get her motivated.
Thanks very much for sharing your idea, I'm clear know, that molding is necessary, something I wanted to avoid, but it seems there is no other go.
regards
Andre

[dw]

Courtney,

Not everyone will agree with me and perhaps it doesn't apply in all circumstances but as a general rule build ups should be placed where the foot indicates a build up is necessary.

The whole point, after all, is to model the foot as closely as possible without destroying the lines of the last or the grace of the last.

Having said that, unless the foot is tender or has anomalous topography...bunions, hammer toes and the like...that must be addressed, the last should not end up looking like a foot, but rather a shoe.

The bottom line, as in anything of this nature, is not to do things without reason. I know that just sounds like simple sense but there's more to it than that. The last (the foot) is so complex that if you place a build up on the last without a rationale for why it should go in that particular place, the chances of throwing some other measurement(s) off increases rapidly.

Put a build up over the cone when what you really need is one over the root of the fifth (cuboid) and you risk throwing the long heel off. Get the long heel wrong and the foot slides forward in the shoe and the toes feel cramped.

And not all of that can be ameliorated by the laces.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[last_maker]

Andre,

After thinking about it over night, and reading your comment, I belive thier is another alternative to modeling and moulding.

I love things that are readily available and processes that we know. Build ups on lasts are somthing we know as footwear makers. Thus, I had another thought.

Pediatrists sometimes use birkocork to thermoset a semi flexible orthotic. This material is made out of cork being the major ingrediant, nylon next and the whole is held together with latex rubber giving it a flexiblity. Another words this material is a composit.

Alternatively, since you are not making an orthotic but an interesting sandle with toe supports, you could go to your local loews, home depot, or craft store and pick up some sheets of cork. they come in 1/4" and 1/8" 1'x1' Office supplie stores sell cork in 1/8" sheets 1' x36" So take your pick of stores. Cork does tend to be expensive though.

Anyway, utilizng your sole shape trace around the sole shape that is on top of the cork. with a box knife cut out the cork.

Build pulverize some of the cork with a coffee grinder. ( use a dusk mask!!) and mix with hot glue. More cork than glue. Afix this to the toe area scupting and shaping the triangle. Vacume press wet leather over as I discribed earlier.

A second thought would be skip the cork all together even the modling and moulding and do a direct sculp and leather skive.

Make a sub insole out of leather. use scrap of soling leather ( that is ridgid and stiff) and pulverize with a coffee grinder. Mix with hot glue as discrived in the cork step.build up the triangle area between the first and second toes and the toe support with this pulverized leather and hot glue composit. Skive model, sand and shape.

Place a layer of wet leather over your sub sole you just modeled. Vacume press as discribed in my last post on this subject. Allow to dry. Iron the area to give good shape. cement glue sube sole to top sole.

Stitch sub sole to top insole. Put your sandle strapes in. and sole the sandle.

Well that is my second two bits.

Marlietta

http://lastmakingschool.com/classes/Intermediate%20Last%20Making.htm

[andre]

Dear Marlietta,
you're amazing creative and of course you're right again, this will do the work. I think will try with the leather scrape, it doesn't have to be so smooth like cork and I guess sanding it later will be more accurate. But why the glue should be hot, or do you mean mix it and before applying, do activation of the glue-mix?
I hope I can use the coffee grinder later again, otherwise I will have lot's of problems!
Anyhow I'm starting this week with the last and next week I will try the insole.
Thanks very much,
regards
Andre

[noonan]

Good Morning Crispinites,
Yes it's a lot of work, but in the long run, the best way, and least messy. You can duplicate this molded insole on the next pair of sandals your'e happy customer orders. Thermo cork is available a bunch of places, I just always used Prime Materials in Batavia, NY they have a web site.
Or Cork Technologies in Lawrence, Mass. for raw cork of any type, as well as compounds for all types of use. They supply a bottom filler system used industry wide. Need to order lots though.
Someone mentioned using modeling clay for some sculpt work. Excellent way to go sometimes. I would sometimes build a last by starting out with a plaster cast. (These were always extremely mishapen feet) Onto this casting, you can start modeling a toe shape/box. To get accurate depths over toes, I would set nails at specific heights out over the toes, and smear and smooth the clay over these pins. Play around for a while, even use the clay to smooth out any rough spots in the plaster. When you are happy with what you got, Then very carefully make a casting of this model. I would drill a hole into the top of this model, and place on a jack, then doing my best not to bust it, I would make a casting of model. Next step is messy, and smelly. Take this next casting off, and after preparing properly with mold release,and sealing up any leaks, Prepare your material to pour. An old timer showed me a simple way. A gallon of Bondo, when you open the can, there is just enough space to pour in a quart of epoxy resin. Pour it in and stir it and keep stirring it until consistent. Then pour the smelly mix into the mold. Leave for the day, cause the smell is awful. Next day, have fun pulling the messy casting sock away, and cleaning up the new "last" It works, but man, it's a lot of effort, and you need to get paid for all this work. I had good luck with this method the few times I used it. On a couple of customers, that I made a couple pair each year, I just had the last maker turn me pairs from these models,(they are durable, but not like wood.) My only other advise, is make sure you work in a well ventilated area, and charge as much as you can for the shoes.
Tim

[danfreeman]

Allow me to jump back a bit--missed a lot, being gone for the weekend. I hope my relasting suggestion helped, and would only add:
Make sure laces and facings are fully opened, tongues cleared, of course. The last must be fully forward, into the toe, before starting on the heel, less easy to see. And don't try it at all if you've built up the last heel any longer or wider.
The closest I've come to running down the quote is Golding, Sec. 7, Lasting & Making, p.12, but there's more--somewhere.

[dw]

Dan,

Maybe I'm not understanding fully, but why would building up on the heel make any difference...unless you're saying that these build-ups were put on after you pulled the last?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[last_maker]

Andre'

I am thinking of the pulverized leather mixed with hot glue being utilized as a leather modeling clay that once modeled,So to be clear, the liquid hot glue is mixed with the pulverized leather. once sculpted, more hot glue can be stuck to the sub sole affixing the triangle or you can heat the sandle and the triangle and it will afix itself. The hot glue is the kind that come in sticks in the glue gun, is what I am referring to. This glue runs out of the gun and if you have pulverized leather ready to saturate the glue with the pulverized leather you might have time before it freezes to afix it to the surface. Well there might be other ways too to make this composit. However, my only point was to make a clay like composit that you can work in the positive instead of the negitive ( as with mould making) and stick your little sculpted area in place and be on with your work. so if there is another medium you would rather utilize than hot glue, than try it! You won't know until you experiment a bit. i can't imagine contact cement working. If you use wood glue it is sort of water resistant. I know hot glue is resistant. Which in my perception, is a good thing since you do not want your modeled triangle to float around and dislodge during sandle use, right?

Now, I am trying to be conciderate of your profit here. There is always a balance of custom prices and time. I understand the concept that if you price to high, you loose a customer, price to low and you've wasted your time. Shoes tend to be precived as "worth a higher price" according to customers, although it takes effort to do both.

I belive and am convinced that a direct leather composite modeling is in order, to save time and get on with the project already.

I know there are wonderful cork products out there specifically designed for the shoe and orthotic industry, but honestly, if you had a choice between something fancy or something that worked and worked well but was either free or inexpensive, wouldn't that be the way to go?

On the note of a coffee grinder. I have in my studio, a dedicated blender, coffee grinder and electric dough mixer for non food items. A coffee grinder can be picked up rather cheeply at a local second hand store.

I am agreeing with you about the leather, since you probably have it laying around. However, I am thinking that if you layered and skived, you might be there all day, or maybe not... who knows. Wheare as making a leather composite that is clay like for a build up and will stick will allow you to get on already with your sandel making process.

Marlietta

http://lastmakingschool.com/classes/Intermediate%20Last%20Making.htm

(Message edited by last_maker on June 21, 2010)

[danfreeman]

DW
I mean, a stock last is designed with an amount of heel curve which is small enough to allow factory shoes to be unlasted without damage--the topline can safely stretch that much. For a custom fit last, I sometimes must elongate the heel prominence ("bubble the last&#34 for a low-arched foot, or widen it for a particularly "squatty" heel. This sometimes obliges me to saw off the rear of the last and screw it back on, to be removed for un- or relasting. This addition increases the difference between the length of the last at its longest point, and at its topline.
My point is merely that a last with a projecting, bulbous heel is harder to remove from (or replace into) a shoe than is an average stock last.

[andre]

Marlietta,
sorry for my delay, but was a few days not too well. I'm not a real expert for glues, so like you said, without trial no fun.
I guess such a sole could be profitable, provided you make it wide enough, so you can easily customized it later for many customers. Make it unisex and you have most likely more business.

There are many nice products and shoes out there, but if you stop looking out for something, which makes at least for yourself a difference, than everything will look the same, isn't it? Also why should somebody wants to buy a Birkenstock from me, if he can have the original? Never made sense to me, to go for copies. Agreed, it's not possible to develop all the time new styles, never been seen before or a new constructions, but add something here, give something there to it, choose different materials, colors etc. and you have a new great product - may be, sometimes, sometimes throw it away, that's also part of the game.

Thanks
Andre

[last_maker]

Andre'

You think like an artist, Andre'. An experiemental attitude. I belive that footwear making is art and sometimes the fun of it is feeling a process to develop your own unique style. Your customers come to you becuase of your unique style, not because you have "copied: birkenstock" but if it is that syle that excites you, it is a source to pull from A work of art is taking from different sources and creating an item that presents your intention.

birkenstock although a nice sandle and sole, you needn't be in compotion with. your "imitations" will mutate into your own style. Before, you know it it isn't birkenstock imitation it is an "Andre Gerdes" Footwear designer and maker. unique features in the footwear produced.

But all in all, I belive handi craft people like the experience of experiment to produce a product of thier artistry. i know I do!

-Marlietta
http://lastmakingschool.com/classes/Intermediate%20Last%20Making.htm

[dw]

I have been talking to J&V with regard to the alternative hinges that they offer. They do offer the PAC hinge as shown in Bill Tippit's June 13 post above. But according to Spencer Bruce at J&V, it is not even as stable as a regular spring hinge with regard to how much hammering, etc., it will take before the hinge starts to open. And it would be hard to get out of a boot above 6 inches simply because of the angle and pressure you need to bring to bear to "break" it.

That said, they also offer a SES hinge (I think that's the name/nomenclature) that is nearly identical in the way it opens but it is locked into place with some sort of metal fixture. Just behind the cone of the last a small metal tab protrudes and it requires a sharp rap with a hammer or bar and the whole back of the hinge will unlock, opening freely and pivoting out of the way exactly as the PAC hinge does. No worries whatsoever about ripping the topline.

According to Spencer, the last is also more stable than a regular hinge last.

The down side is that they cost a little extra ($5.00?).

My next pair of shoe lasts are going to have that hinge.And maybe my next pair of boot lasts as well.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[courtney]

On the last pair of shoes I made they seem to fit almost perfect but,
it feels uncomforatble under my outside lateral ball joint.

I am wondering if the last has to much curve underneath and needs a build up to level it out or maybe it needs a some cushion insole?

it is the chukka boot that i added the rocker sole to but the pressure is before it starts to taper so I wouldnt think that would be causing it.

Any ideas?

Also, if you make a mold duplication of a last and then saw it in half, how do you get it out of the shoe?

Courtney

[courtney]

Another thought I had was maybe the hold fast was putting more pressure under my joint than the rest of the insole?

Courtney

[btippit]

DW,

I am a little surprised by Spencer's comments to you about the hinges. I'll preface my remarks by saying that I come from a Jones and Vining factory background and their factory in Arkansas is, for all intents and purposes, the Vulcan factory.

However, at JV, the PAC hinge was extremely solid...able to withstand many repetitions of factory lasting and de-lasting with the strength to do cement and welted construction while having the mechanics to also have slip lasted shoes made on it. The SES hinge on the other hand was true to it's name. SES stood for Speed-E-Slip hinge and it was strictly made for California/slip-lasted construction, much too week to hold up to the rigors of cement or welt shoemaking. Hell, it was weak enough to often twist during the slip lasting process.

Spencer does bring up a good point about getting the boot de-lasted but I think it could be done if the last itself were designed to help facilitate this.

I'll be very interested to hear your critique of the SES hinge but I wish he'd toss in a PAC hinge on the same last/size just for comparison. When I tried to order a PAC hinge from JV Arkansas a few years back I was told by someone that they did not like making that hinge and, because of the limited production work done in the USA nowadays, I'm sure they seldom got such a request.

Again though, I come from a different JV factory so my knowledge could be 16 years (yeah, it's been that long since I left JV) and a few hundred miles down the road off base.

Bill

[dw]

Bill,

Well, now I'm confused. Guess I'll have to go back and talk to Spencer some more...make sure I get it right.

Thanks for the input.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[dw]

All,

Well, yesterday I received some lasts (singles) to look at. One had a PAC hinge and the other had the SES hinge.

The PAC hinge is nicely illustrated in Bill Tippit's 13 June 2010 post and photos above.

The SES last looks very similar but it has a metal "tab" just behind the top of the cone. The tab acts as a locking mechanism to hold the hinge tight. There is no spring to hold the last closed, just the locking mechanism.

The SES last proved very stable. It would not twist and I could hammer heavily on both the forepart and the heel with no effect. The tab was relatively easy to unlock and when it was, the hinge basically "fell" open. No effort was necessary to "break" the last. Any tightness in the top line of the shoe would be of no concern whatsoever.

The PAC hinge last seemed pretty stable as well. It did afford a slight...emphasize slight...amount of twisting of the forepart relative to the backpart. I would guess that the amount was less than a sixteenth of an inch at the hinge seam.

But my real complaint is that I could not figure out how to break the hinge. Even though the backpart is intended to move in the same direction...up and forward...as the SES hinge, it is a spring type hinge and the spring is pretty strong. I couldn't for the life of me determine how to apply the proper force/leverage/angle of attack to make the forepart and backpart move in opposite directions.

I drilled a hole in the side of the heel and used a last hook in an attempt to pull the heel/backpart up. No joy.

Parenthetically, I could see the mechanics of how the hinge might work and I could even get it to begin moving in the proper direction but I couldn't get it to completely open up. Even on the lap jack I couldn't get the proper leverage to move the hinge.

This won't get any easier with a shoe on the last. It was difficult to see how the shoe would be held even if the hinge could be made to open.

It's frustrating because the PAC not is not new or untried. Or at least the concept is not new. Thornton has a lithograph in the back of his book (pp572--R. Whitton Lasts) that clearly shows something very similar. And, theoretically at least, it holds great promise...if I could just figure out how to open the *$&#%*!!! thing!!

If anyone...Bill?...has experience opening this type of last and can give me some pointers or tell me what I'm doing wrong...or which corner of my mouth to hold my tongue in...I would be grateful.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

(Message edited by admin on August 14, 2010)

(Message edited by admin on August 14, 2010)

[frank_jones]

DW

I could not help being amused by your posting above. I have been there with that “*$&#%*!!! thing!!”. I can assure you I too was embarrassed. It makes you feel totally stupid.

Not wishing to contradict Bill Tippet’s terminology but I have only ever heard a last with that exit mechanism called a “Reverse Break Last”.

It is hard to explain exactly how you break the last but I will try.

Put the it on a last pin so that the sole side is upwards. Then without allowing the back section of the last to slide up the pin, pull the toe upwards with a good firm pull.

I would also like to make a request. If you are going to be in Delavan in October and travelling with the extra weight is not a problem, please bring the last with you!

Frank Jones
frank.jones@noblefootwear.com

[dw]

Frank,

I intend to be in Delavan...hoping to give two presentations...and I'll bring both lasts with me--the PAC or Reverse Break Last and the SES.

BTW, great minds must be like great rivers...all flowing in the same direction...because not four hours ago it came to me. I figured out how to break the old stinker. Sometimes if you let your subconscious work on a problem and don't force it....

And your description is spot on.

Of course, I didn't have a shoe on the last so I wasn't sure how good a solution the Reverse Break hinge was, especially compared to the SES. But I thought it might work especially with a metal shank in the shoe.

Looking forward to seeing you at AGM.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[btippit]

DW,

I wish I had been able to save you the cranial effort in the "how to" of the PAC (aka Reverse Break Hinge). Unfortunately, I've been laid up with a pretty nasty staph infection in my left arm since last Thursday. Slept through a fever for the better part of 26 hours and didn't even wake up when Juel would take my temperature (ear, NOT rectal thermometer) or check to see if I was alive. I would only wake long enough to take one or both of my two antibiotics and then drift off again. Not that I don't trust her but I don't remember the "Juel Rules" tattoo on my arm or the French tip manicure. Hmm....

I didn't feel much like doing anything and today was my first day back at work and having any kind of normal schedule. As expected though, you figured it out. I will say that there are some of these PAC hinges (Frank - you say tomAto I say tomAHto ) that go in the opposite direction so instead of pulling the toe upward, you will push it down (and it will slide back towards the heel). I imagine though that JV only makes them one way and the one you have is the more common one if memory serves me.

I am very surprised to hear that the SES hinge is tighter than the PAC. At the JV factory in Troy it certainly was not that way and simply based on the mechanism, I'd be surprised if the SES still held the title after a couple of dozen trips through a shoe factory. Sounds like you could be happy with either though as I'm sure you don't plan on making a couple of dozen or more pairs of boots or shoes off a single pair of lasts.

Again, sorry I couldn't be of service sooner. For a while, one arm looked like Popeye's and the other looked like Olive Oil's. GARSH!!! gyuck-gyuck-gyuck-gyuck

Bill

[dw]

Thanks Bill.

Well, maybe J&V has changed the design of their SES. I can't see any significant twisting or instability at all. And it's a huge last.

I think the only thing that worries me is that the trigger is a little loose. Once it is locked down it is tight. But it's a little like a clutch that doesn't engage until it's an inch off the floor. And there's no resistance in the trigger movement until the instant it locks. So it's either locked or not locked...period.

I'll have these when you come down. You can look them over and give me your thoughts..

Sorry to hear about your staph infection...you've got to watch out for those things especially in this day and age of antibiotic resistant bacteria...MSRA, etc.. Glad you're feeling better.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[producthaus]

This is a sketch from the following site:
http://www.anthonydelos.com/


I labeled a few of the sketch marks and was wondering if someone could elude to their purpose as functional markings for creating a bespoke last, and then the craft-person's particular technique or style.

Image is kind of small, here are the callouts :

A) the fan of lines
B) hatch marks
C) lines showing toes
D) circle with X in center
E) a carrot, or arrow pointing inwards

11593.jpg

(Message edited by producthaus on August 27, 2010)

[dw]

Nick,

I like Delos shoes and I admire his craftsmanship and dedication immensely.

I am going to take a swing at some of these but first I would stipulate that some of these may be notations made after the fact...after having made a first or second fitter's model.

A) I believe this is an indication of how the weight is transferred. All the lines seem to be in some relationship to the center of the back of the heel even if that's not immediately apparent. The medial and lateral lines seem to align with the first and fifth. Next in from the lateral might be a centerline and inward from the medial line might be a (L)ine of (M)uscular (A)ction or a reference to the space between the first and second metatarsal heads (which is very nearly the same thing).

B) I'd have to say that this is indicating some pressure along the lateral side. Maybe the customer complained? But there is also some cross-hatching under the first met head as well. Such a mix of pressure points would not be all that unusual but the fact that there is cross-hatching in both places might mean something altogetehr different.

C) Might indicate high toes and some rubbing over the knuckles of the toes.

D) I think this is definitely a hot spot.

E) ??

Shoe/bootmakers who do fitter's models will often note their customers remarks in this manner as a way to indicate where the bespoke last needs modification.

And such notations are almost always unique to that shop or that maker. So the only way to know for sure is to ask Delos. I'm guessing, not reading his mind.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member