DW
I think more as I sweat outside working on a retanaing wall. But consider glad kling Wrap the real stick stuff it sticks to itslf and a little heat with the heat gun gets rid if most wrinkles. Then put on a thin sock and coat with wood glue let dry for 4 hours thrn do another coat with a another sock and wood glue Tite bond III is pretty water proof if you fill with plaster. Of course you need some protection strip to cut the cast off. Have you thought of sand casting? Got to run 20 yards of gravel came.
Regards
Brendan
One "Last" Question
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large_shoemaker_at_large
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corvin
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Re: One "Last" Question
DW, try calling Farwest Materials in Walla Walla, Wa (?). They're very helpful! I don't have the number on hand, but a quick web search will bring it up.
Thanks,
Craig
Thanks,
Craig
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amuckart
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Re: One "Last" Question
Al, I think this might be the sort of stuff Georgene is talking about:
http://www.obeeliks.com/en-gb/dept_61.html
I have a friend who is a conservator in a museum. I'll give him a ring later on and see if he has any ideas.
If spraying release onto the original is an issue you might be able to use a baloon or a non-lubricated condom to cover it.
http://www.obeeliks.com/en-gb/dept_61.html
I have a friend who is a conservator in a museum. I'll give him a ring later on and see if he has any ideas.
If spraying release onto the original is an issue you might be able to use a baloon or a non-lubricated condom to cover it.
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rocketman
Re: One "Last" Question
Hi DA
Why don't you just have Bill scan it in his foot scanner? This will give a file that can be machined straight into a last. If the museum won't let you send it to Bill, there are companies that will come scan it for you or you could talk the museum into a quick trip to visit them and give you the file. Bill or those of us whom have CNC machines could cut a dupe for you, but it will take some co-ordination. We could copy it down to the grain in the wood if you like but I'll bet you just want the shape. My CNC is torn down being re-built at the moment so it might be a few weeks before it sees action again.
Just thought I would throw out the idea anyway. Good luck with it.
Lyle
Why don't you just have Bill scan it in his foot scanner? This will give a file that can be machined straight into a last. If the museum won't let you send it to Bill, there are companies that will come scan it for you or you could talk the museum into a quick trip to visit them and give you the file. Bill or those of us whom have CNC machines could cut a dupe for you, but it will take some co-ordination. We could copy it down to the grain in the wood if you like but I'll bet you just want the shape. My CNC is torn down being re-built at the moment so it might be a few weeks before it sees action again.
Just thought I would throw out the idea anyway. Good luck with it.
Lyle
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amuckart
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Re: One "Last" Question
DW,
Yes, you can cast pewter into RTV. You can get specialist pourable RTV or you can use high-temperature RTV from an auto parts shop if the thing you're reproducing isn't too complex.
If you have an original you want to reproduce and you only need a one-shot mould you can press it into cuttlefish 'bone' and cast into that. As far as I'm aware that's one of the ways they did lead casting in roman and medieval times. You can get cuttlefish bones from pet shops, they sell them for birds to chew on. The other traditional way is to carve a mould in soapstone, which carves very easily.
There's a tutorial on pewter casting into RTV here:
http://www.pewtering.com/RTVCasting/RTVTutorial.asp
Yes, you can cast pewter into RTV. You can get specialist pourable RTV or you can use high-temperature RTV from an auto parts shop if the thing you're reproducing isn't too complex.
If you have an original you want to reproduce and you only need a one-shot mould you can press it into cuttlefish 'bone' and cast into that. As far as I'm aware that's one of the ways they did lead casting in roman and medieval times. You can get cuttlefish bones from pet shops, they sell them for birds to chew on. The other traditional way is to carve a mould in soapstone, which carves very easily.
There's a tutorial on pewter casting into RTV here:
http://www.pewtering.com/RTVCasting/RTVTutorial.asp
Re: One "Last" Question
DW, Alasdair's link covers all the highlights and most importantly, the use of non sulphur clays.
Modern silicone baking molds are rated up to 500 degrees.
I get my RTV locally, either from a store that sells plastic molding supplies or my neighbor who has a pre-cast company. I haven't bought RTV in a while but 4 years ago a 5 gallon pail with catalyst was running around $400.
Georgene
Modern silicone baking molds are rated up to 500 degrees.
I get my RTV locally, either from a store that sells plastic molding supplies or my neighbor who has a pre-cast company. I haven't bought RTV in a while but 4 years ago a 5 gallon pail with catalyst was running around $400.
Georgene
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relferink
Re: One "Last" Question
Rick,
I'm a little late in the game but do have a slightly different opinion to add so if I may....
The bottom paper seems out of proportion to me, specifically for this foot. Just building up the last laterally will ultimately not give you the best fit.
My suggestion is to draw a new bottom paper based on a Harris mat imprint with a foot tracing. Though the foot seems flared the ultimate shape will be determined by both the bone structure and the foot outline.
With the new bottom paper see where to modify the last. Instinctively I would suggest to build up both medially and laterally.
Drawing your own bottom paper will also allow you to lay the lOMA where it need to be in relation to the front portion of the last. If you want to use the last where this bottom paper came from you may have to change the toe portion of the last as well.
If you build up the last laterally the cone will sit too far medially, when making a lace up shoe your lace bars will not sit on the foot correctly when done.
There is no right or wrong way in working measurements into a last. Many prefer to build up a narrower last, I am used to working from a larger blank so I prefer to take off. It is not always easy to keep the model lines from the original last but you loose those as well when you build up, it may just not look as overwhelming while working on it. Do draw a bottom paper so you have a guide where you want to end up and take your time. Work on it for some time, put it aside and the next time you pick it up you see things in a whole new light.
Al,
Sorry to change the subject on you again. Fiberglass will set faster and is much less messy compared to plaster. You still need water to be activated. You will need to protect the last with saran wrap.
Optical scanning will be the least damaging procedure. Can't you convince them that having a digital record of their possessions is crucial for long term safekeeping. (and you'll be happy to take a copy of that last file
)
Rob
I'm a little late in the game but do have a slightly different opinion to add so if I may....
The bottom paper seems out of proportion to me, specifically for this foot. Just building up the last laterally will ultimately not give you the best fit.
My suggestion is to draw a new bottom paper based on a Harris mat imprint with a foot tracing. Though the foot seems flared the ultimate shape will be determined by both the bone structure and the foot outline.
With the new bottom paper see where to modify the last. Instinctively I would suggest to build up both medially and laterally.
Drawing your own bottom paper will also allow you to lay the lOMA where it need to be in relation to the front portion of the last. If you want to use the last where this bottom paper came from you may have to change the toe portion of the last as well.
If you build up the last laterally the cone will sit too far medially, when making a lace up shoe your lace bars will not sit on the foot correctly when done.
There is no right or wrong way in working measurements into a last. Many prefer to build up a narrower last, I am used to working from a larger blank so I prefer to take off. It is not always easy to keep the model lines from the original last but you loose those as well when you build up, it may just not look as overwhelming while working on it. Do draw a bottom paper so you have a guide where you want to end up and take your time. Work on it for some time, put it aside and the next time you pick it up you see things in a whole new light.
Al,
Sorry to change the subject on you again. Fiberglass will set faster and is much less messy compared to plaster. You still need water to be activated. You will need to protect the last with saran wrap.
Optical scanning will be the least damaging procedure. Can't you convince them that having a digital record of their possessions is crucial for long term safekeeping. (and you'll be happy to take a copy of that last file
) Rob
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jesselee
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- Full Name: Jesse Lee Cantrell
- Location: Town of Niagara, NY, USA
Re: One "Last" Question
Bill,
I will contact you soon. Internet and phone has been down due to flooding. Hopefully phone is up this weekend. I am restoring some Civil War period lasts ie. replacing the cones and wish to use original sizes.
Cheers,
JesseLee
I will contact you soon. Internet and phone has been down due to flooding. Hopefully phone is up this weekend. I am restoring some Civil War period lasts ie. replacing the cones and wish to use original sizes.
Cheers,
JesseLee
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das
- Seanchaidh
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Re: One "Last" Question
Everybody,
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions on casting this antique last. I'll look into the options presented and let you know how we get along. Scanning is an option, if we can find somebody in the area with the right gizmo, and if it can be carried into museum storage. How big are these things?
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions on casting this antique last. I'll look into the options presented and let you know how we get along. Scanning is an option, if we can find somebody in the area with the right gizmo, and if it can be carried into museum storage. How big are these things?
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dw
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Re: One "Last" Question
Rob, all,
I have to apologize ahead of time because I may be about to stir up a hornet's nest. I don't pretend to know even a smidgeon as much about feet as someone like Rob or Al, but I think this is a great opportunity to learn...
When I look at a "footprint" (defined, by me, as the actual outline of the weight-bearing surface of the foot as derived from a pedograph or a wine-soaked print) one of the first things I see and try to evaluate is how wide the first metatarsal head/joint is. The LOMA is a good tool in evaluating both the width and the position of the first met head especially in relationship to the rest of the foot.
Now, can we stipulate that a footprint of that sort is pretty definitive? I mean, you can't make the plantar surface wider or narrower...or even skewed...than it is under actual weight bearing circumstances. And the pedograph captures that surface pretty accurately, doesn't it?
So, if we can get that far, we have at our fingertips a pretty reliable indicator of how wide the first met head is and where it is located under the foot.
I can't for the life of me envision any circumstance in which putting any portion of the insole (as derived from a bottom paper taken directly from the last) to one side (or the other) of where the first met head is located.
In other words, all things being equal and the foot being somewhat functionally "normal," I want to see the first met head socket into the position provided for it by the last.
Yes, I guess one could build up medially. I don't have enough hard knowledge to evaluate that approach one way or the other. But I do have some preliminary thoughts...
The last itself imposes some restraints on the foot by virtue of the shape and limitations of the heelseat, the cone, etc.. If we use any sort of quality in producing a heel stiffener, the shape of the heel will limit the position of the foot within the shoe not to mention the midliner, toe stiffener, etc.. The foot is prevented from shifting medially by the very presence of the counter and the midlinings, etc., simply because they are shaped to the last--and that's at least part of the raison d'etre of a heel stiffener in the first place.
So, in my minds eye, any build-up on the medial side to accommodate Rick's "B" schemata will only result in an insole overhang at the medial joint...at least until the shoe (and counter) has broken down sufficiently to allow the foot to shift medially.
And, in the "A" proposal, I cannot envision the cone being significantly out of place, either, as the cone is more or less representative of the instep of the foot--which, again, is almost entirely dependent on the bone structure from the ankle (and by implication, the center of the heel/os calcis) to the first metatarsal head--it is not coincidental, I think that the inside cone on a last more or less coincides with the LOMA.
Almost parenthetically but still moot, in my lexicon the foot is only flared when the direction of the toe/extreme forefoot deviates significantly from a line drawn along the medial side of the foot touching at the side of the heel and the medial joint. I don't think this foot is very flared.
So I have laid it out there...what I see and/or am thinking. I would appreciate it if anyone (don't hold back) could explain to me where I have gone wrong in this analysis and/or show me examples that illustrate situations where my rationalizations simply would not apply.
Again, I am willing to learn.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
I have to apologize ahead of time because I may be about to stir up a hornet's nest. I don't pretend to know even a smidgeon as much about feet as someone like Rob or Al, but I think this is a great opportunity to learn...
When I look at a "footprint" (defined, by me, as the actual outline of the weight-bearing surface of the foot as derived from a pedograph or a wine-soaked print) one of the first things I see and try to evaluate is how wide the first metatarsal head/joint is. The LOMA is a good tool in evaluating both the width and the position of the first met head especially in relationship to the rest of the foot.
Now, can we stipulate that a footprint of that sort is pretty definitive? I mean, you can't make the plantar surface wider or narrower...or even skewed...than it is under actual weight bearing circumstances. And the pedograph captures that surface pretty accurately, doesn't it?
So, if we can get that far, we have at our fingertips a pretty reliable indicator of how wide the first met head is and where it is located under the foot.
I can't for the life of me envision any circumstance in which putting any portion of the insole (as derived from a bottom paper taken directly from the last) to one side (or the other) of where the first met head is located.
In other words, all things being equal and the foot being somewhat functionally "normal," I want to see the first met head socket into the position provided for it by the last.
Yes, I guess one could build up medially. I don't have enough hard knowledge to evaluate that approach one way or the other. But I do have some preliminary thoughts...
The last itself imposes some restraints on the foot by virtue of the shape and limitations of the heelseat, the cone, etc.. If we use any sort of quality in producing a heel stiffener, the shape of the heel will limit the position of the foot within the shoe not to mention the midliner, toe stiffener, etc.. The foot is prevented from shifting medially by the very presence of the counter and the midlinings, etc., simply because they are shaped to the last--and that's at least part of the raison d'etre of a heel stiffener in the first place.
So, in my minds eye, any build-up on the medial side to accommodate Rick's "B" schemata will only result in an insole overhang at the medial joint...at least until the shoe (and counter) has broken down sufficiently to allow the foot to shift medially.
And, in the "A" proposal, I cannot envision the cone being significantly out of place, either, as the cone is more or less representative of the instep of the foot--which, again, is almost entirely dependent on the bone structure from the ankle (and by implication, the center of the heel/os calcis) to the first metatarsal head--it is not coincidental, I think that the inside cone on a last more or less coincides with the LOMA.
Almost parenthetically but still moot, in my lexicon the foot is only flared when the direction of the toe/extreme forefoot deviates significantly from a line drawn along the medial side of the foot touching at the side of the heel and the medial joint. I don't think this foot is very flared.
So I have laid it out there...what I see and/or am thinking. I would appreciate it if anyone (don't hold back) could explain to me where I have gone wrong in this analysis and/or show me examples that illustrate situations where my rationalizations simply would not apply.
Again, I am willing to learn.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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toeflower
Re: One "Last" Question
I spent a few years modifying my own last to the inside (for my straight big toe that gets clipped and callused in most shoes) and to the outside ( for my tailor's bunion tendancy) I have a very flexible and wide forefoot that appears to flare in medially. What a mistake emphasizing medial buildups was.
Even though my foot appears to need alot of medial build up and it looks like the medially modified last actually follows the imprint, it creates a void in this area while wearing the boot. The foot seems to slide laterally causing the boot to run over and alot of pressure gets put on tailors bunion anyway.
The boot has a really twisted look curving to the inside. Looks a little goofy.
Last winter I quickly built a pair of laceups on a hiking boot last that I had modified a few years back and forgot to change the buildups. Big mistake!
I now build the medial side minimally and put the bulk on the lateral side with much better results. Those old lastmakers knew what they were doing.
Even though my foot appears to need alot of medial build up and it looks like the medially modified last actually follows the imprint, it creates a void in this area while wearing the boot. The foot seems to slide laterally causing the boot to run over and alot of pressure gets put on tailors bunion anyway.
The boot has a really twisted look curving to the inside. Looks a little goofy.
Last winter I quickly built a pair of laceups on a hiking boot last that I had modified a few years back and forgot to change the buildups. Big mistake!
I now build the medial side minimally and put the bulk on the lateral side with much better results. Those old lastmakers knew what they were doing.
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romango
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Re: One "Last" Question
Thanks gentlemen.
For clarification, the footprint in the original post was derived from a Harris Mat print (not a wine print).
I will say that the footprint does not always tell the whole story. The toes may extend well beyond the weight bearing point. I seem to run afoul of this fact regularly. When sizing a fitter, the most common additional adjustment requested is more room for the big or little toes.
For clarification, the footprint in the original post was derived from a Harris Mat print (not a wine print).
I will say that the footprint does not always tell the whole story. The toes may extend well beyond the weight bearing point. I seem to run afoul of this fact regularly. When sizing a fitter, the most common additional adjustment requested is more room for the big or little toes.
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large_shoemaker_at_large
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Re: One "Last" Question
Suzanne
New the site? and welcome!
As i read your post I thought of 2 things yous say you have a flexable forefoot and your foot slides Larteraly. Sounds like a Pronation issue. If you have a tight Achilles tendon and tight calf muscles your foot will deviate laterlly wishing its way into the happy place and pushing on your Taylors bunion.
If you can try to make an insole with a 1/4 inch build up on the medial edge and sand it to a feather laterally giving you a nice medial ball and heel wedge and try it for a while. If you straight big toe is hurting grind it a pocket so the great toe has a dish to sit in.
If this works I can tell you more ways to enhance looks and comfort. Where you from? how long have you been making footwear?
Regards
Brendan
New the site? and welcome!
As i read your post I thought of 2 things yous say you have a flexable forefoot and your foot slides Larteraly. Sounds like a Pronation issue. If you have a tight Achilles tendon and tight calf muscles your foot will deviate laterlly wishing its way into the happy place and pushing on your Taylors bunion.
If you can try to make an insole with a 1/4 inch build up on the medial edge and sand it to a feather laterally giving you a nice medial ball and heel wedge and try it for a while. If you straight big toe is hurting grind it a pocket so the great toe has a dish to sit in.
If this works I can tell you more ways to enhance looks and comfort. Where you from? how long have you been making footwear?
Regards
Brendan
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dw
- Seanchaidh
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Re: One "Last" Question
Rick,
Well, yes, the toes (esp. the big toe) themselves may migrate in all kinds of weird directions--laterally as the heel goes up, lengthwise as we get older, etc.. But I don't think the metatarsal heads do that. WYSIWYG.
What's more, sometimes, what the customer interprets as too tight in the toes isn't always in the width of the insole...it's in the girth (if there is a girth) around the toes themselves. If there's not enough room above and around the toes, for example, the vamp leather may actually pull the toes in towards the center of the insole. You need to physically check to see if the toes are overhanging the insole to be sure if that is or is not the case.
Then too...I would guess that things like proper heel to joint length can have a critical affect on whether the foot slides forward or not...resulting in the foot being too far forward in the shoe...nevermind how the laces hold the instep.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Well, yes, the toes (esp. the big toe) themselves may migrate in all kinds of weird directions--laterally as the heel goes up, lengthwise as we get older, etc.. But I don't think the metatarsal heads do that. WYSIWYG.
What's more, sometimes, what the customer interprets as too tight in the toes isn't always in the width of the insole...it's in the girth (if there is a girth) around the toes themselves. If there's not enough room above and around the toes, for example, the vamp leather may actually pull the toes in towards the center of the insole. You need to physically check to see if the toes are overhanging the insole to be sure if that is or is not the case.
Then too...I would guess that things like proper heel to joint length can have a critical affect on whether the foot slides forward or not...resulting in the foot being too far forward in the shoe...nevermind how the laces hold the instep.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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btippit
Re: One "Last" Question
OK, first things first....
Al - If you can get a good mold of the last from the museum I can digitize it one of two ways. I'm not familiar with Hydrocal gypsum but if it held up in Carl's Fagus lathe it will definitely not be a problem in the Newlast last digitizer that my partner factories use. If the material is solid and not just a hollow shell, so that I can drill some small holes in it, I'll just send it to the factory and have them digitize it like we recently did with a couple of your lasts. While the machine operates on the same principal as a conventional last lathe, it only applies about 7psi to the last as opposed to about 25-30psi on a lathe or one of the earlier last digitizers, like JV's Compu-Last.
If it's hollow or too soft, etc., I'll just coat it with white paint and digitize it on the Next Engine 3D Desktop Scanner I have. As you know, I don't use this a lot and would rather just have the factory do the digitizing but if that's the only way, that's what we'll do.
As for scanning the actual last in the museum, the Next Engine scanner could be taken there. It's as portable as a laptop and doesn't need any special power outlets or anything. The drawback is the color and texture of the last. Ideally it would be smooth, and a consistent light color, preferably white. As I'm sure that's not the case, it would most likely be a pain in the rear end to digitize without painting it or coating it with that light gray welder's resin. As all of these scenarios are out of the question, let's hope for a good and suitable mold.
Well, this is long enough already so I'll address the "to build or not to build" topic in a separate post.
Jesse - no problem. Contact me whenever you're ready.
Bill “The Last Man Standing” Tippit
www.globalfootwearsolutions.com
Al - If you can get a good mold of the last from the museum I can digitize it one of two ways. I'm not familiar with Hydrocal gypsum but if it held up in Carl's Fagus lathe it will definitely not be a problem in the Newlast last digitizer that my partner factories use. If the material is solid and not just a hollow shell, so that I can drill some small holes in it, I'll just send it to the factory and have them digitize it like we recently did with a couple of your lasts. While the machine operates on the same principal as a conventional last lathe, it only applies about 7psi to the last as opposed to about 25-30psi on a lathe or one of the earlier last digitizers, like JV's Compu-Last.
If it's hollow or too soft, etc., I'll just coat it with white paint and digitize it on the Next Engine 3D Desktop Scanner I have. As you know, I don't use this a lot and would rather just have the factory do the digitizing but if that's the only way, that's what we'll do.
As for scanning the actual last in the museum, the Next Engine scanner could be taken there. It's as portable as a laptop and doesn't need any special power outlets or anything. The drawback is the color and texture of the last. Ideally it would be smooth, and a consistent light color, preferably white. As I'm sure that's not the case, it would most likely be a pain in the rear end to digitize without painting it or coating it with that light gray welder's resin. As all of these scenarios are out of the question, let's hope for a good and suitable mold.
Well, this is long enough already so I'll address the "to build or not to build" topic in a separate post.
Jesse - no problem. Contact me whenever you're ready.
Bill “The Last Man Standing” Tippit
www.globalfootwearsolutions.com
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btippit
Re: One "Last" Question
To all:
I realize that the pictures I'm about to post do not offer a suggestion on how a maker can modify a last to align with the foot better. Those of you making the footwear generally don't have the luxury of slicing, twisting, and swinging the last. However, I thought I would post a little pictorial of how I approach this problem when I need to "put meat where the foot is and get rid of it where the foot ain't". These pictures are just a quick walk through of the process to show the method and don't represent a finished last so I'm not trying to say that by the time you look at the 4th and 5th pictures you're seeing what I would send to the factory for production.
I'm just curious if anyone sees anything in this that could spark a hand made method of accomplishing the same thing. It was either this or watch my Rams get trounced in another pre-season game or turn on CNN and see which candidate can tell the biggest tale under Rick Warren's interrogation.
So there it is. At least the Cardinals are winning so the night is not a total loss.
Bill “The Last Man Standing” Tippit
www.globalfootwearsolutions.com
I realize that the pictures I'm about to post do not offer a suggestion on how a maker can modify a last to align with the foot better. Those of you making the footwear generally don't have the luxury of slicing, twisting, and swinging the last. However, I thought I would post a little pictorial of how I approach this problem when I need to "put meat where the foot is and get rid of it where the foot ain't". These pictures are just a quick walk through of the process to show the method and don't represent a finished last so I'm not trying to say that by the time you look at the 4th and 5th pictures you're seeing what I would send to the factory for production.
I'm just curious if anyone sees anything in this that could spark a hand made method of accomplishing the same thing. It was either this or watch my Rams get trounced in another pre-season game or turn on CNN and see which candidate can tell the biggest tale under Rick Warren's interrogation.
So there it is. At least the Cardinals are winning so the night is not a total loss.
Bill “The Last Man Standing” Tippit
www.globalfootwearsolutions.com
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relferink
Re: One "Last" Question
All,
Good stuff. I just got home and have to sit down to digest the posts but first I need my beauty sleep
In the mean time I wonder if Rick can post the Harris mat with the foot outline for the above mentioned last modification. If you have any pictures of the foot as well I'd love to see them as well.
I don't think we are all that far apart in our approach once the details are filled in. Having the Harris mat image will help a lot with the details.
Rob
Good stuff. I just got home and have to sit down to digest the posts but first I need my beauty sleep
In the mean time I wonder if Rick can post the Harris mat with the foot outline for the above mentioned last modification. If you have any pictures of the foot as well I'd love to see them as well.
I don't think we are all that far apart in our approach once the details are filled in. Having the Harris mat image will help a lot with the details.
Rob
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romango
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Re: One "Last" Question
Wow. Nice presentation, Bill.
Seems to me the net result of pivoting the front of the last is similar to a lateral buildup and medial reduction. This is probably close to what I will get by building out laterally to the footprint and then adjusting the girth medially.
Seems to me the net result of pivoting the front of the last is similar to a lateral buildup and medial reduction. This is probably close to what I will get by building out laterally to the footprint and then adjusting the girth medially.
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romango
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Re: One "Last" Question
Robert,
Here is my imprint. The trace used in the original post is sitting on top. Sorry, no pictures of the foot. I need to get in the habit of doing that.
Here is my imprint. The trace used in the original post is sitting on top. Sorry, no pictures of the foot. I need to get in the habit of doing that.
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paul
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Re: One "Last" Question
I want to confirm Suzanne's comment from above, by my own observations and experience:
Suzanne said,
"Even though my foot appears to need alot of medial build up and it looks like the medially modified last actually follows the imprint, it creates a void in this area while wearing the boot. The foot seems to slide laterally causing the boot to run over and alot of pressure gets put on tailors bunion anyway."
I have made fitters where I built medially to the imprint on a big toe, only to have the toes sliding out to the lateral side of the toe area of the boot.
Someone's comment from the past on this subject, seemed to indicate that some big toes are flexible enough to swing back into place when the heel is raised.
Let's discuss that some more, as flexiblity of the big toe seems to relate to where to do the build up on a last for a foot like this.
I'm really interestred in this discussion, as this really seems to be one for the section Correcting (or should we say) Dealing with Common Foot Problems.
Paul
Suzanne said,
"Even though my foot appears to need alot of medial build up and it looks like the medially modified last actually follows the imprint, it creates a void in this area while wearing the boot. The foot seems to slide laterally causing the boot to run over and alot of pressure gets put on tailors bunion anyway."
I have made fitters where I built medially to the imprint on a big toe, only to have the toes sliding out to the lateral side of the toe area of the boot.
Someone's comment from the past on this subject, seemed to indicate that some big toes are flexible enough to swing back into place when the heel is raised.
Let's discuss that some more, as flexiblity of the big toe seems to relate to where to do the build up on a last for a foot like this.
I'm really interestred in this discussion, as this really seems to be one for the section Correcting (or should we say) Dealing with Common Foot Problems.
Paul
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dw
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Re: One "Last" Question
Bill, Paul, all,
If all you are doing is swinging the forepart inward, I don't see how that helps much for the individual shoe/bootmaker.
When I confront an inflare foot (is that right? I always get the "flares" confused--medially flared is what I mean) it is no problem to add a build up from the medial joint to the extreme toe end of the last.
Since this is congruent with my definition of a flared foot, I am not concerned with the last heel-ward of the joint, nor even modifying the joint area. For me, this is a situation where you can (and should) align the last and pedograph according to the LOMA.
But speaking to Paul and Suzanne's concerns, at least part of the reason such medial build-ups don't work...and almost always leave a void...is simply that the backpart of the last is constraining the foot and its ability to shift out of alignment...to shift medially and fill that void.
This reminds me of an old wisdom that applies to flyfishermen--when the fly comes sailing past your head and snags your collar or even your ear, there's no sense complaining or cursing it. The fact is that "it's working!!" It's working as it should work--a hook is supposed to catch vulnerable surfaces.
So too with the last. It is supposed to constrain the foot. The only way that you can change that dynamic...and I suppose you do this unconsciously, Bill, (or perhaps you just didn't include it in your explanation)...is to simultaneously add substance on the medial side of the cone and heel. This changes the center of gravity and the limits of that constraint I was talking about.
I have done this...sometimes successfully, sometimes not so successfully. I'm no expert on the technique nor even the theory but it can be done. That said, it is a long way away from sliding the pedograph medially on the bottom paper and simply adding a build-up at the medial joint to accommodate (in my view) a fundamental mis-alignment.
What's more, making those kinds of modifications usually requires extensive cutting and "remodeling" of the best of lasts...so this is probably better left to a lastmaker.
As Paul and Suzanne have pointed out...and it certainly confirms my experiences over a number of years...that's just begging for more problems.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
If all you are doing is swinging the forepart inward, I don't see how that helps much for the individual shoe/bootmaker.
When I confront an inflare foot (is that right? I always get the "flares" confused--medially flared is what I mean) it is no problem to add a build up from the medial joint to the extreme toe end of the last.
Since this is congruent with my definition of a flared foot, I am not concerned with the last heel-ward of the joint, nor even modifying the joint area. For me, this is a situation where you can (and should) align the last and pedograph according to the LOMA.
But speaking to Paul and Suzanne's concerns, at least part of the reason such medial build-ups don't work...and almost always leave a void...is simply that the backpart of the last is constraining the foot and its ability to shift out of alignment...to shift medially and fill that void.
This reminds me of an old wisdom that applies to flyfishermen--when the fly comes sailing past your head and snags your collar or even your ear, there's no sense complaining or cursing it. The fact is that "it's working!!" It's working as it should work--a hook is supposed to catch vulnerable surfaces.
So too with the last. It is supposed to constrain the foot. The only way that you can change that dynamic...and I suppose you do this unconsciously, Bill, (or perhaps you just didn't include it in your explanation)...is to simultaneously add substance on the medial side of the cone and heel. This changes the center of gravity and the limits of that constraint I was talking about.
I have done this...sometimes successfully, sometimes not so successfully. I'm no expert on the technique nor even the theory but it can be done. That said, it is a long way away from sliding the pedograph medially on the bottom paper and simply adding a build-up at the medial joint to accommodate (in my view) a fundamental mis-alignment.
What's more, making those kinds of modifications usually requires extensive cutting and "remodeling" of the best of lasts...so this is probably better left to a lastmaker.
As Paul and Suzanne have pointed out...and it certainly confirms my experiences over a number of years...that's just begging for more problems.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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dw
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Re: One "Last" Question
Rick,
Here's your last photo, marked up with a few quick but relevant graphic observations...
Take them as you will.
The metatarsal head and the LOMA are clearly (if not 100% precisely) defined in red. The actual arch (it's misleading in your jpg is outlined in blue, and the medial profile line in orange. From my point of view, the medial profile line says this is not a flared foot.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Here's your last photo, marked up with a few quick but relevant graphic observations...
Take them as you will. The metatarsal head and the LOMA are clearly (if not 100% precisely) defined in red. The actual arch (it's misleading in your jpg is outlined in blue, and the medial profile line in orange. From my point of view, the medial profile line says this is not a flared foot.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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dw
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Re: One "Last" Question
Oops, sorry...that one didn't take. How about this one:
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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btippit
Re: One "Last" Question
DW,
I believe that what I'm trying to illustrate actually puts the center of gravity, or LOMA, or to use Rossi's term the, "tarsal focal point", from the original position of the "off the shelf" last to where it needs to be for the foot you're working with. Yes, when I "swing" the last to the medial side, I am swinging the entire last, not just the bottom. If, because of peculiarities of this foot, some material offsets need to be made on the upper surface after that I can do them as I'm tweaking the girth but the all important last bottom (insole) is now aligned with the pedograph.
I didn't save my files last night so I tried to recreate the exact lines as closely as I could but I think the pictures below show how radically off center the original last was to the foot and how much more closely they align after the forepart was swung to line up with the foot. I've deleted all of the bottom construction lines the Romans CAD software generates except the bottom centerline and the medial tangent line to avoid clutter in the pictures.
Of course, I'm not a shoe/boot maker but this method has seemed to be well received with the makers I've used it for and just looking at the geometry, it seems to make perfect sense to me.
Bill “The Last Man Standing” Tippit
www.globalfootwearsolutions.com
I believe that what I'm trying to illustrate actually puts the center of gravity, or LOMA, or to use Rossi's term the, "tarsal focal point", from the original position of the "off the shelf" last to where it needs to be for the foot you're working with. Yes, when I "swing" the last to the medial side, I am swinging the entire last, not just the bottom. If, because of peculiarities of this foot, some material offsets need to be made on the upper surface after that I can do them as I'm tweaking the girth but the all important last bottom (insole) is now aligned with the pedograph.
I didn't save my files last night so I tried to recreate the exact lines as closely as I could but I think the pictures below show how radically off center the original last was to the foot and how much more closely they align after the forepart was swung to line up with the foot. I've deleted all of the bottom construction lines the Romans CAD software generates except the bottom centerline and the medial tangent line to avoid clutter in the pictures.
Of course, I'm not a shoe/boot maker but this method has seemed to be well received with the makers I've used it for and just looking at the geometry, it seems to make perfect sense to me.
Bill “The Last Man Standing” Tippit
www.globalfootwearsolutions.com
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dw
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Re: One "Last" Question
Bill,
You have all the tools, alright.
I would say this, however, I don't see why it is necessary to align the pedograph as you have in the initial illustration.
I suspect that if the pedograph were shifted, pivoting from the center back of the heel so that the medial edge of the pedograph was aligned with the medial edge of the bottom paper, the original last would work quite satisfactorily.
Of course, what you have presented here is also good...I wouldn't hesitate to use such a last. But bear in mind that by your own admission you have shifted considerably more than just the bottom--a procedure that, short of radically cutting the last as well as extensive build-ups, is not available to a bespoke maker.
It would be interesting to see the original pedograph superimposed over the original bottom paper...I'm sure it would not look as good as your final result but again, you've a lot of tools not available to us.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
You have all the tools, alright.
I would say this, however, I don't see why it is necessary to align the pedograph as you have in the initial illustration.
I suspect that if the pedograph were shifted, pivoting from the center back of the heel so that the medial edge of the pedograph was aligned with the medial edge of the bottom paper, the original last would work quite satisfactorily.
Of course, what you have presented here is also good...I wouldn't hesitate to use such a last. But bear in mind that by your own admission you have shifted considerably more than just the bottom--a procedure that, short of radically cutting the last as well as extensive build-ups, is not available to a bespoke maker.
It would be interesting to see the original pedograph superimposed over the original bottom paper...I'm sure it would not look as good as your final result but again, you've a lot of tools not available to us.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC