Curved needle

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romango
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Re: Curved needle

#126 Post by romango » Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:43 am

Thanks Paul. That helps. I'm amazed when people say their machines cooperate. The K seems very fussy about having everything perfectly aligned. I've been adjusting and replacing parts and cleaning for months and have not yet reached that state of grace.

I suspect one part is out of adjustment and everything else is set based on that one. So, as a whole, it all looks right but is really not.

But I shall not be deterred!

will

Re: Curved needle

#127 Post by will » Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:55 pm

Does anyone know how to replace a needle arm guide or needle guide dowel pins on Landis curve needle stitcher?

Thanks for your help.

timmyg

Re: Curved needle

#128 Post by timmyg » Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:50 pm

http://www.bootmaker.com/manuals.htm
A lot of manuals to look at.
Try to watch people using the K on u tube.

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Re: Curved needle

#129 Post by jdow » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:39 am

I am having trouble getting my Landis 12 F to sew. The needle and thread are set right, but I cant figure out how to run my bobbin, and get the machine to pick it up.

any suggestions?

Thanks,

Justin

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Re: Curved needle

#130 Post by dw » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:03 am

Justin,

Well, if the needle (is that the awl or the hook you're referring to as a "needle?" ) is set correctly and the thread is the right weight (almost irrelevant) then there's only about a dozen other things that could be out of adjustment. Image

In order that the hook be properly adjusted, it must be set in relationship to the thread lifter. The awl and the hook must be properly set in relationship to each other, as well, but getting the hook and the thread lifter positioned correctly is the first step.

These two settings will ordinarily correct most problems as getting them right is, in one sense, timing the machine, as well. If the hook is in the proper position the thread lifter will lay the thread on the hook and then the hook will continue to move back into the machine such that when the bobbin hook comes around it will not only present the thread loop to the bobbin hook but let go of it when the bobbin hook passes by.

There is a good manual (in pdf format)...free for the download here...

Landis12_Operator's_Manual.pdf

which deal with setting up and adjusting the Landis 1.2

Hope that helps.

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Re: Curved needle

#131 Post by jdow » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:19 am

Yes it deffinately helps. I was reffering to the hook when I said needle sorry. I set all that assembly, (hook, awl, lifter, and looper) to the specs in the manual. I have the same one you referenced.

The hook picks up the thread and the lifter picks the thread off the hook, but I can't figure out where to run the bobbin thread once it comes out of the bobbin itself.

You mentioned a bobbin hook, and I'm not sure what you are talking about. I have never really been around the curved needle machines so I guess I'm shooting in the dark here.

I really think the only thing wrong other than adjusting a little tension is just in the way I have the bobbin thread ran through the machine.

Thanks,

Justin

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Re: Curved needle

#132 Post by dw » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:43 pm

Justin,

On page 8 of that same manual you see the bobbin "cover" (for lack of a better word)--fig. H. There is a little "shoe" on the front of the bobbin case that fits into a rebate on the back of the bobbin cover. The shoe is always positioned downward and the machine rotated until the cover can be brought down over the shoe. The thread is pulled, and held, off to the left as the stitching begins. After two or three stitches, it is released and more or less takes care of itself. It's that simple...so it I misunderstood your question, my apologies.

The "bobbin hook" that I am referring to is actually the shuttle hook. The shuttle is the donut shaped housing (well, it is round and has a bobbin case sized hole in the middle) into which the bobbin case is placed.

It is very hard to describe all this if you have photos of your set up I could maybe point out the shuttle hook etc..

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Re: Curved needle

#133 Post by sean_oneil » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:13 pm

Justin,

We use a very old Goodyear curved needle machine in the making of a line of stitch down shoes.
These shoes are stitched with the last in. When we got the machine it was threaded wrong, there was no tension on the line and we were precautioned to only use braided line rather than twist. It took a while to get over that sinking feeling that we had spent money on another piece of vintage cast iron boat anchor.

Four years later it hums along nicely. As the chief 'tweaker' in this tiny operation I discovered that it must be threaded properly (not an entirely intuitive task with a new to you machine). Plus, every time you have a shoe 'wonk' while stitching it, or a needle breaks, or someone knocks on the door while you're new at it, etc. it can, and will, knock the awl, needle, looper alignment out of whack. I have spent more than a few hours on a stool in front of the machine with the cowling removed watching the clearances and interplay of the aforementioned parts while i turned the wheel by hand and fed top stitch cord through those parts until the shuttle hook would pick it up consistently.

The sewing machine mechanic who sold it to us, and had over 20 years in a fine shoe factory under his belt, assured us that it was a good machine but had to be run with braided thread only. We found a good and cheap source of that locally and his advice turned out to be true.

Check the needle guide. When you break a needle, or just feel that nasty 'metal on metal' feeling it might be the needle guide. I had to replace ours last year and it was a fussy bit of work. On our machine there were 2 dowel pins and a tiny bolt involved in changing it. The best tool I had for that job was a pair of Radio Shack forceps - about 6-7 dollars. Indespensible tool when pulling a needle through an awkward spot of leather too.

We oil our machine with 10w30 engine oil and never try to use it for paid work until its oiled and the room its in is good and warm for a few hours. It can get very cold here and this old machinery needs a certain core temp to work well.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Curved needle

#134 Post by jdow » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:49 am

DW,

Thanks a bunch, I took some pictures last night but I'll have to find the cable so I can upload them. Also, Is there a wax that is better for the wax pot? I have heard something about a wax that doesn't have to be heated. Is that any good?

Sean,

I appreciate the tips, and yes these old cranky machines can sure get a feller frustrated. I have no doubt the machine will be fine once I get it tuned up right though. I just needed some direction in where to start. Personally I don't think you can beat the older machines like that.

I am very new to the boot making business. I have done some custom leather work and a bit of boot repair in the past, but I recently bought all my own machinery to start doing more. That being said I sincerely appreciate all the tips, and I'm glad there is a forum out there like this where the experts are so willing to help the new guys out! Its a great resource.

Thanks,

Justin

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Re: Curved needle

#135 Post by dw » Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:44 pm

Justin,

Sellari's Liquid Machine wax...and be sure to get a can of the thinner too.

Is it good? Compared to what? Compared to the solid, get-up-early-in-the-morning-and-turn-on-your-machine-and-the-heaters, then-go-have-breakfast, hell-to-clean, hard on the rollers, hot melt wax? Probably not. Especially if you use linen thread. But if you use dacron, there's probably not enough difference to go through all that hassle. I use it...

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(Message edited by admin on March 14, 2009)

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Re: Curved needle

#136 Post by romango » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:44 pm

I mentioned before that I used my Landis K curved needle stitcher to close the side seam on some cowboy boots. It worked but it was difficult to use because of the tiny table.

I rigged up this table which helped a lot, allowing me to stabilize the work.

The angle of the table was needed to put the stitches the same distance from the edge on the top and bottom.

Still, I'd rather have a straight needle stitcher but this get the job done.
11376.jpg

11375.jpg

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Re: Curved needle

#137 Post by amuckart » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:31 pm

Do the side seams on boots really need something that heavy duty to close, or is it just that people don't tend to have anything between light-duty closing machines and outsole stitchers?

At that mythical point in the far-off future when I'm actually set up enough to have a go at this bootmaking thing, I was figuring on using my 45k to close the side seams. I don't have a Landis outsole stitcher - and have neither the dollars nor space for one even if I knew where to find one here so outsoles are going to get done by hand or Junker & Ruh.

Cheers.

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Re: Curved needle

#138 Post by amuckart » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:32 pm

DW, et al,

Where does one find Sellari's liquid wax? I've read a lot about it but I've never seen anywhere that sells it.

Thanks.

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Re: Curved needle

#139 Post by romango » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:40 pm

I think an modestly stocked she repair supply shop would have it.

I got some at Oregon Leather.

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Re: Curved needle

#140 Post by johnl » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:52 pm

In regards to closing the side seams, I am wondering if something like the Tippmann Boss would do the job for those that want to automate?

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Re: Curved needle

#141 Post by dw » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:12 pm

The Tippmann will work fine. The side seam is traditionally a heavier stitch...like 7 cord linen or something similar. But I have seen it done with sewing thread. I don't know what the machine was but the thread wasn't all that much heavier than a nylon size 69.

I think that using thinner thread (thinner than the 7 cord) risks cutting through with the stress of entry but ...different strokes, I guess.

The curved needle can be used quite effectively although as I recall the awl...which is designed for punching through soling leather...needs to be rounded and resharpened so as to avoid chewing up the softer leathers of the tops.

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Re: Curved needle

#142 Post by romango » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:29 pm

I didn't notice any problems with the awl but rounding it a bit certainly wouldn't hurt.

It goes through like butter as-is.

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Re: Curved needle

#143 Post by tommick » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:58 pm

Hello All,
After moving my Landis L across the country from FL to WA, storing it for awhile and then moving it once more, I've finally got it set up again and of course it didn't want to stitch right away without breaking thread.
It took me about 30 seconds to realize that all the rollers were frozen and I fixed that pretty quickly.
But I can't get the "take up lever" roller to rotate. I can't honestly say at this point if it ever did.
I've cleaned it over and over with Sellari's thinner/cleaner and no luck.
Is it supposed to rotate? Does anyone know a trick for getting it to rotate without taking lots of stuff apart.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Regards, Tom Mickel

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Re: Curved needle

#144 Post by dw » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:59 am

Tom,

I am not in my shop...on the road to Delavan...but I seem to recall that the take up roller is mounted on a removabe axel. On my "F" IIRC, it is a big bolt.

If you can loosen or remove the bolt, you can free up and clean the take up roller.

??

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Re: Curved needle

#145 Post by tommick » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:41 pm

DW,

Thanks. I ended up not having to take anything apart! I bent a harness needle and spent about an hour scraping out all the old wax around the roller sides that you can't actually see because they are recessed. Flooded the roller with Sellari's cleaner with a toothbrush and then wrapped a 6 cord twice around the roller and worked it until it started to move. At that point it was easy to get more cleaner in there and get the roller working.

Stitches better than the operator's ability now!

Regards, Tom Mickel

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Re: Curved needle

#146 Post by amuckart » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:57 pm

It seems I'm having another 'old iron' month. The tally so far is a second #6 harness machine head & two bobbin winders, a Landis crank splitter, a Gritzner outsoler and this:
12535.jpg
12534.jpg
12534.jpg (32.24 KiB) Viewed 2305 times

It's a Dania curved-needle outsoler. I paid the princely sum of NZ$75 for it. Haven't picked it up yet though, that's this weekend's game.

I think it's a Landis clone, but I've never set eyes on a Landis outsoler to know. Is it recognisable to anyone?

The guy I'm buying it from has a gallon bottle of what he thinks may be wax for it but isn't sure. Liquid wax is another of those things I've never seen in person to know either. The stuff he has is a viscous brown liquid that smells quite a lot like dettol antiseptic. Does that sound even vaguely familiar to anyone, or do I just take it to the haz waste people? Image

Cheers.

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Re: Curved needle

#147 Post by janne_melkersson » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:48 am

Allistar,
Congrats on a good deal. The red beauty is a Pedersen 309 made in Denmark. It is a sole stitcher that stitches nicer stitch then it's bigger brothers. That's why I sold my Pedersen 317 and bought a 309. One thing though it is really hard to get close on the medial side of the waist. I hand stitch the waist both on the lat. side and med. side and then use the machine from behind the ball. It runs with a smaller needle bow and you can use thinner needels and awl then on the heavier sole stitchers.

"The stuff he has is a viscous brown liquid that smells quite a lot like dettol antiseptic." This could be what we call in Swedish for "dragant" and is used to smothen the upper tread which goes through a glas bottle at the back of the machine.

(Message edited by janne melkersson on December 08, 2010)

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Re: Curved needle

#148 Post by amuckart » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:40 am

Hi Jan-Erik,

Thanks for that. I don't suppose you have anything like a manual for it?

I did wonder at the size of the machine. I had the impression that this style of stitcher was usually a seriously big bit of hardware, and this was quite a lot smaller than I was expecting. It's maybe four and a bit feet tall, perhaps just on five foot. On its stand I reckon it weighs about as much as my Pearson #6 and treadle stand, probably a bit less than 220kg.

This one is a Dania type 150, but I suspect that Dania may have turned into Pedersen later on and the model numbers changed. Sadly there is basically zero information on Dania on the Internet.

The guy who has this machine also has a Dania model 'HA50' machine that is a clone of the Junker & Ruh SD-28, which Pedersen made as the #308. I have a Dania brand 5-in-1 ranger that looks to be a part-compatible clone of the Landis. Got that from a shoe repairer who was using it as a doorstop for NZ$150, which I was pretty happy with.

I went and took some more photos of it today so I can figure out how to break it down into manageable parts to get into my car. Here's the model & serial number plate from the front of the machine:
12543.jpg

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Re: Curved needle

#149 Post by amuckart » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:47 am

I just read your note about the "dragant". While I was taking photos I found the glass jar (it's a coffee jar, as far as we can tell, not original) on the back with congealed brown goo in it and figured it was the same stuff by the smell, so I get a couple of litres of that in the bargain.
12545.jpg


The other thing I find interesting about it is the hand-cranked bobbin-winder, which you can see in the top-left of that photo. I suspect that'll get really old really fast when I start using the machine.

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Re: Curved needle

#150 Post by dw » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:26 am

Alasdair,

If the liquid wax is anything like what we get over here--Sellari--it starts off white and turns brown with age. Like an over ripe pear or banana,

You need a new batch.

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