Here's a thread guide for the landis F:
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Curved needle
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dw
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Re: Curved needle
Erick,
Sorry this is almost two months late...sometimes I wait for someone else to jump in and forget.
The manual is correct. When the swinging roller arm is at its lowest point in its swing the thread lock should be absolute. I've sewn with it a little loose but you never get a tight drawdown of the bobbin threadthat way.
Your problem with the tension on the top thread may be related to an insufficient lock.
Hope this helps...
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Sorry this is almost two months late...sometimes I wait for someone else to jump in and forget.
The manual is correct. When the swinging roller arm is at its lowest point in its swing the thread lock should be absolute. I've sewn with it a little loose but you never get a tight drawdown of the bobbin threadthat way.
Your problem with the tension on the top thread may be related to an insufficient lock.
Hope this helps...
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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GeorgeneMcKim
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dw
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Re: Curved needle
Larry, Erick,
I'm moving this discussion back wher it started.
Anyway, Larry...right as rain, you are. But Erick's original question was about the thread lock (see his post of April 5 above). So that's the reason I expanded upon the tensioning wheel issue.
Very frankly, I've never fussed with my tensioning wheel...although I know it controls slack like you *and* I said). But my machine is so old I don't think the tensioning wheel turns anymore (if it ever did). The thread just runs around it, in a groove in the built up wax...shame on me!!
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
I'm moving this discussion back wher it started.
Anyway, Larry...right as rain, you are. But Erick's original question was about the thread lock (see his post of April 5 above). So that's the reason I expanded upon the tensioning wheel issue.
Very frankly, I've never fussed with my tensioning wheel...although I know it controls slack like you *and* I said). But my machine is so old I don't think the tensioning wheel turns anymore (if it ever did). The thread just runs around it, in a groove in the built up wax...shame on me!!
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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uncle_bob
Re: Curved needle
Erick, DW and all,
Sorry I missed all the action on the stitcher "my personal favorite topic" it jogged my memory that I owe a few some manual copies "sorry". But I am glad that you got her hummin'. Could you please, for the benifit of the followers of this thread "no pun intended" tell us what the corrective measure that worked was? And here's a picture with somewhat of descriptions of the thingies. Thought it might be handy.
Kind Regards,
Bob
Sorry I missed all the action on the stitcher "my personal favorite topic" it jogged my memory that I owe a few some manual copies "sorry". But I am glad that you got her hummin'. Could you please, for the benifit of the followers of this thread "no pun intended" tell us what the corrective measure that worked was? And here's a picture with somewhat of descriptions of the thingies. Thought it might be handy.
Kind Regards,
Bob
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uncle_bob
Re: Curved needle
Additional noteworthy tidbits..
*the thread sizes are compatable between top and bottom
*the needle size and awl size must be matched and coordinate with the thread size
*the needle and needle guide must be matched
*the thread lock may need to be adjusted when changing thread size
*the opening of the channel can be widened by grinding a less acute angle on the channel knife without having to set the depth to deep into the sole "beyond 1/2 way"
*after changing needle and before operating, do a test run manually with material in place to assure freedom of movement "sometimes needle spring changes free form settings"
*it's usally the easy stuff thats causing the misery
*and last but not least, a quote by W. G. Yates..."Man has got to adapt to machine, machine will not adapt to man" a motorcycle term, but quite applicable "me simling" :-)
*the thread sizes are compatable between top and bottom
*the needle size and awl size must be matched and coordinate with the thread size
*the needle and needle guide must be matched
*the thread lock may need to be adjusted when changing thread size
*the opening of the channel can be widened by grinding a less acute angle on the channel knife without having to set the depth to deep into the sole "beyond 1/2 way"
*after changing needle and before operating, do a test run manually with material in place to assure freedom of movement "sometimes needle spring changes free form settings"
*it's usally the easy stuff thats causing the misery
*and last but not least, a quote by W. G. Yates..."Man has got to adapt to machine, machine will not adapt to man" a motorcycle term, but quite applicable "me simling" :-)
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dw
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Re: Curved needle
Bob,
That's a great illustration! I wish it were black on white, I'd "lift" it.
Good tips, too! I especially like the one about sharpening the channel knife. Great mind think alike. I figured that out some years ago...showed it to al when I was out there visiting him.
One other ti, especially if you get to fooling with the thread lock:
*there is only one point where the thread lock is properly locked down. Setting the adjustment too far in one direction doesn't lock the thread properly; and setting it too far in the other direction will cause the mechanism to "bind." And you'll get a "resistance" as the hand wheels turn through the cycle. Not good.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
That's a great illustration! I wish it were black on white, I'd "lift" it.
Good tips, too! I especially like the one about sharpening the channel knife. Great mind think alike. I figured that out some years ago...showed it to al when I was out there visiting him.
One other ti, especially if you get to fooling with the thread lock:
*there is only one point where the thread lock is properly locked down. Setting the adjustment too far in one direction doesn't lock the thread properly; and setting it too far in the other direction will cause the mechanism to "bind." And you'll get a "resistance" as the hand wheels turn through the cycle. Not good.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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erickgeer
Re: Curved needle
Bob,
That illustration looks familiar, which book does it come out of, Karg? If so, I had forgotten about that one.
Erick
That illustration looks familiar, which book does it come out of, Karg? If so, I had forgotten about that one.
Erick
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Tom Mickel
Re: Curved needle
Hi all,
I'm on my 6th pair of boots (+ 2 shoes) and have only cemented on the soles so far. I have a Landis L but after all the time it takes me to get up to the point where I need to stitch, I'm really scared to mess up with the L.
I've been practicing with the L and I have 2 questions: 1) I seem to be able to stitch fine around a sole (not on a boot) if I don't have a channel knife in but if I put the knife in I seem to eventually walk off the edge 2) I'm using Sellari's stitching wax and should I change to a thread lub. like lots of others on this forum seem to have done?
This is a great forum, thanks to all, I have learned tons from all of you.
Tom Mickel
I'm on my 6th pair of boots (+ 2 shoes) and have only cemented on the soles so far. I have a Landis L but after all the time it takes me to get up to the point where I need to stitch, I'm really scared to mess up with the L.
I've been practicing with the L and I have 2 questions: 1) I seem to be able to stitch fine around a sole (not on a boot) if I don't have a channel knife in but if I put the knife in I seem to eventually walk off the edge 2) I'm using Sellari's stitching wax and should I change to a thread lub. like lots of others on this forum seem to have done?
This is a great forum, thanks to all, I have learned tons from all of you.
Tom Mickel
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dw
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Re: Curved needle
Tom,
Aye, there's the rub. When you stitch without the knife down, you almost subconsciously begin to think of the needle and awl as the "pivot point." Which it really is. But the knife cannot pivot around like the awl or hook can...it has a tendency to keep going in the same direction for more than one or two stitches.
When you stitch "aloft" (without the knife) you can see and make minute course corrections instantaneously even though you may very well be holding the boot or shoe under the presserfoot askance, so to speak. In other words, you might very well stitch right off the edge even on a straight shot if you weren't making those minute corrections.
I guess what it all comes down to is that when you start using the channel knife, you have to see the knife as the pivot point. You have to anticipate the curvature of the sole. You have to always have the boot turned into the machine slightly in advance of the hook and awl. Or that's the way it feels. In truth, you are doing exactly the same thing as you would do with a roller foot on a Singer 31 class machine--but in this case, you're "aiming" the boot rather than the presserfoot.
I don't know if that makes sense...and when you add to it the necessity to keep the sole level, both front to back and side to side, it often seems like you need four hands and two brains. But that's at least one way of looking at it.
BTW, I went to Selari's liquid wax many years ago. I use thread lubricant in my straight needle machine for stitching side seams but wax...always wax in the curved needle.
Keep at it, it'll come.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Aye, there's the rub. When you stitch without the knife down, you almost subconsciously begin to think of the needle and awl as the "pivot point." Which it really is. But the knife cannot pivot around like the awl or hook can...it has a tendency to keep going in the same direction for more than one or two stitches.
When you stitch "aloft" (without the knife) you can see and make minute course corrections instantaneously even though you may very well be holding the boot or shoe under the presserfoot askance, so to speak. In other words, you might very well stitch right off the edge even on a straight shot if you weren't making those minute corrections.
I guess what it all comes down to is that when you start using the channel knife, you have to see the knife as the pivot point. You have to anticipate the curvature of the sole. You have to always have the boot turned into the machine slightly in advance of the hook and awl. Or that's the way it feels. In truth, you are doing exactly the same thing as you would do with a roller foot on a Singer 31 class machine--but in this case, you're "aiming" the boot rather than the presserfoot.
I don't know if that makes sense...and when you add to it the necessity to keep the sole level, both front to back and side to side, it often seems like you need four hands and two brains. But that's at least one way of looking at it.
BTW, I went to Selari's liquid wax many years ago. I use thread lubricant in my straight needle machine for stitching side seams but wax...always wax in the curved needle.
Keep at it, it'll come.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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uncle_bob
Re: Curved needle
Erick and Tom,
Erick,
You betcha...mermory, at my advancing age can be a mutha, but I know where all the bodies are buried in my archive :-)
Tom,
While addressing the L with the supreme confidence of a Master one must rely heavily upon the finely tuned and syncronized adjustments on the L itself, including but not limited to stitch length, consolidated sole/welt thickness compensation, awl sharpness, angle and bevel modifications "pending application", table type "with or without block lip" and/or adjustable edge margin guage "guide" adjustment "distance in from the edge of the sole thingie", type and setting of channel blade "some cut a recessed channel "ever so sweet" and some a groove "like Allen Edmonds that let the aloft stitch reside below the wear line" and once secure in the setting your "oneness with the machine "wu weiness if you will" mind and body alignment dictate how you finness the shoe upon the table and tickle the delicasies of your newly crafted masterpiece around the edge of the sole with just the right stuff making the last stitch fall ever so gently into place with a somewhat gallant smile within your heart. And the pressure applied to the holddown and pressed in mode of transferrance as you lean into the machine and use body weight, pedal pump and hand eye "GUIDE" anticipating all factors and fluctuations you see it thru "and oh how joyous it is upon completion". This my good man is the dance of the curved needle, and if you've ever owned, driven and maintained a British Roadster from the 40 to the 60 you'll understand exactly what it's like, rest assured your shoes and your soul "sole" deserve this dance, and your the man for to fill the shoes. Did I really write this or was it LaGavulin? Good Luck Man..
Told Yah, I'm got a fancy for the curved...
Kindest Regards,
Uncle Bob
Wax, personally I use accumulated ear wax from the build up that occurs when one ignores the customers comments while having fun playing with shoes in the repair shop :-), I guess to each his own, it's all good. In the absence, the lubricant is low maintnance "no build up around moving parts", and I'm scared of electricity, heaters and stuff on the machine :-)
Erick,
You betcha...mermory, at my advancing age can be a mutha, but I know where all the bodies are buried in my archive :-)
Tom,
While addressing the L with the supreme confidence of a Master one must rely heavily upon the finely tuned and syncronized adjustments on the L itself, including but not limited to stitch length, consolidated sole/welt thickness compensation, awl sharpness, angle and bevel modifications "pending application", table type "with or without block lip" and/or adjustable edge margin guage "guide" adjustment "distance in from the edge of the sole thingie", type and setting of channel blade "some cut a recessed channel "ever so sweet" and some a groove "like Allen Edmonds that let the aloft stitch reside below the wear line" and once secure in the setting your "oneness with the machine "wu weiness if you will" mind and body alignment dictate how you finness the shoe upon the table and tickle the delicasies of your newly crafted masterpiece around the edge of the sole with just the right stuff making the last stitch fall ever so gently into place with a somewhat gallant smile within your heart. And the pressure applied to the holddown and pressed in mode of transferrance as you lean into the machine and use body weight, pedal pump and hand eye "GUIDE" anticipating all factors and fluctuations you see it thru "and oh how joyous it is upon completion". This my good man is the dance of the curved needle, and if you've ever owned, driven and maintained a British Roadster from the 40 to the 60 you'll understand exactly what it's like, rest assured your shoes and your soul "sole" deserve this dance, and your the man for to fill the shoes. Did I really write this or was it LaGavulin? Good Luck Man..
Told Yah, I'm got a fancy for the curved...
Kindest Regards,
Uncle Bob
Wax, personally I use accumulated ear wax from the build up that occurs when one ignores the customers comments while having fun playing with shoes in the repair shop :-), I guess to each his own, it's all good. In the absence, the lubricant is low maintnance "no build up around moving parts", and I'm scared of electricity, heaters and stuff on the machine :-)
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danfreeman
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Re: Curved needle
Ah--my favorite machine--the curved needle.
Tom, I'd stay with the Stellari's cold wax. It really helps hold the seam together.Hot wax is said by some to be better yet, and may be, but the Stellari's is solvent based, so you get the same result: a liquid wax that ends up solid. Both cause trouble, in the form of built-up wax that will sooner or later stop the machine. Thread lube is easier to use--no problems with build-up--but it doesn't "harden" the stitch, necessary on outsole seams. Easiest of all would be an empty wax pot; but the dry thread would quickly fray and fail.
In a previous post, I said that I'd found complete success only with linen thread in my curved needle; trouble with loose stitches seemed to accompany every attempt to use any of the synthetics (except in the bobbin, where I've used Bulldog for years). However, a new technique has solved the problem. Of course, it's not easy. Before I stitch, I completely clean the whole thread path--that means every wheel is turning freely, which takes about 15 minutes with the solvent and brushes. My old machine may be the problem (an American C--similar to the Landis F), and I've seen many machines stitch just fine with a locked-up wheel or two (like your tension wheel, DW), but mine only stitches well with Bulldog top & bottom if all wheels are freely turning.
Tom, I'd stay with the Stellari's cold wax. It really helps hold the seam together.Hot wax is said by some to be better yet, and may be, but the Stellari's is solvent based, so you get the same result: a liquid wax that ends up solid. Both cause trouble, in the form of built-up wax that will sooner or later stop the machine. Thread lube is easier to use--no problems with build-up--but it doesn't "harden" the stitch, necessary on outsole seams. Easiest of all would be an empty wax pot; but the dry thread would quickly fray and fail.
In a previous post, I said that I'd found complete success only with linen thread in my curved needle; trouble with loose stitches seemed to accompany every attempt to use any of the synthetics (except in the bobbin, where I've used Bulldog for years). However, a new technique has solved the problem. Of course, it's not easy. Before I stitch, I completely clean the whole thread path--that means every wheel is turning freely, which takes about 15 minutes with the solvent and brushes. My old machine may be the problem (an American C--similar to the Landis F), and I've seen many machines stitch just fine with a locked-up wheel or two (like your tension wheel, DW), but mine only stitches well with Bulldog top & bottom if all wheels are freely turning.
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Tom Mickel
Re: Curved needle
Thanks for all the advice, I'll keep one eye on the channel knife and the other on the hook/awl and another eye on turning the boot and another eye on levelness of the sole.
As you travel on through life,
Wherever you may look,
Keep your eye upon the knife,
Not upon the hook.
Thanks all, Tom M.
As you travel on through life,
Wherever you may look,
Keep your eye upon the knife,
Not upon the hook.
Thanks all, Tom M.
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Georgene McKim
Re: Curved needle
Is Kerosene or Acetone considered the better solvent for cleaning built up wax and dirt from a curved stitcher like my Landis F (which of course came with no manual so your posts are invaluable). What kind of oils are you using for lubrication to apply to the the moving parts and into that little oil cup on the top.
Thanks
Georgene McKim
Thanks
Georgene McKim
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dw
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Re: Curved needle
Hi Georgene,
I'm not sure acetone would cut it. I use kerosene or Selari's Wax Thinner/Cleaner. But when the crud is ages old it may take some help witn a sharp instrument o get it off.
Also I use Marvel's Mystery Oil...I think you can find it in an AutoParts store. It's lightweight and clings better than most oils...hence longer term, better protection.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
I'm not sure acetone would cut it. I use kerosene or Selari's Wax Thinner/Cleaner. But when the crud is ages old it may take some help witn a sharp instrument o get it off.
Also I use Marvel's Mystery Oil...I think you can find it in an AutoParts store. It's lightweight and clings better than most oils...hence longer term, better protection.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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Tom Mickel
Re: Curved needle
Georgene,
I spent about 35 hrs. cleaning my "L" when I got it. I used Selari's Wax Thinner/Cleaner and "Painter Wipes" that come in a plastic "can" from Home Depot for exposed parts. The most helpful item I used was long pipe cleaners from the crafts center at Walmart.
I then got red auto touchup paint from Pep Boys (little bottle with a tiny brush) and marked all the oil cups and holes with a dot. Not surprising, but I just saw another one the other day that I hadn't seen previously (there certainly are lots of them).
I also use Marvel Mystery Oil (probably because it was mentioned here some time ago).
Tom Mickel
I spent about 35 hrs. cleaning my "L" when I got it. I used Selari's Wax Thinner/Cleaner and "Painter Wipes" that come in a plastic "can" from Home Depot for exposed parts. The most helpful item I used was long pipe cleaners from the crafts center at Walmart.
I then got red auto touchup paint from Pep Boys (little bottle with a tiny brush) and marked all the oil cups and holes with a dot. Not surprising, but I just saw another one the other day that I hadn't seen previously (there certainly are lots of them).
I also use Marvel Mystery Oil (probably because it was mentioned here some time ago).
Tom Mickel
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Georgene McKim
Re: Curved needle
Thanks Tom and DW for the tips. Since I have no manual, I'm stumped as to where to oil the thing other than the obvious. Anyone have a diagram for that? Or willing to post a digital picture with arrows? Pipe cleaners are good idea for those nooks and crannies. I've been using long handled medical cotton swabs successfully.
I need some help on the bobbin threading. Does the side of the bobbin with the raised circle around the bobbin shaft face into the bobbin case case or out? I'm assuming the thread revolves clockwise before engaging the tensioning parts on the bobbin case but please correct me if I'm wrong.
You may laugh at my questions but I bought this machine with others for the proverbial good price. Practiced with it where I bought it (where it worked perfectly and I actually stitched sample soles well!), transported it 200 miles in the back of my van, suffered husbandly wrath, set it up in my shop, stitched a couple of practice soles and the thread broke. When I checked the the bobbin, it came out of the machine eliminating my reference on which way it threaded. Didn't give it too much thought then because it needed a good cleaning of the encrusted wax and leather dust. I was about to take DW's class and didn't really need it operational just yet. Now that I'm just about finished with acquiring all the things/machines necessary for bootmaking I need to tame the iron beast, or a least worship appropriately in a humble fashion to appease the stitcher gods. Any tips, photos etc. thankfully appreciated.
I need some help on the bobbin threading. Does the side of the bobbin with the raised circle around the bobbin shaft face into the bobbin case case or out? I'm assuming the thread revolves clockwise before engaging the tensioning parts on the bobbin case but please correct me if I'm wrong.
You may laugh at my questions but I bought this machine with others for the proverbial good price. Practiced with it where I bought it (where it worked perfectly and I actually stitched sample soles well!), transported it 200 miles in the back of my van, suffered husbandly wrath, set it up in my shop, stitched a couple of practice soles and the thread broke. When I checked the the bobbin, it came out of the machine eliminating my reference on which way it threaded. Didn't give it too much thought then because it needed a good cleaning of the encrusted wax and leather dust. I was about to take DW's class and didn't really need it operational just yet. Now that I'm just about finished with acquiring all the things/machines necessary for bootmaking I need to tame the iron beast, or a least worship appropriately in a humble fashion to appease the stitcher gods. Any tips, photos etc. thankfully appreciated.
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Georgene McKim
Re: Curved needle
Thanks Tom and DW for the tips. Since I have no manual, I'm stumped as to where to oil the thing other than the obvious. Anyone have a diagram for that? Or willing to post a digital picture with arrows? Pipe cleaners are good idea for those nooks and crannies. I've been using long handled medical cotton swabs successfully.
I need some help on the bobbin threading. Does the side of the bobbin with the raised circle around the bobbin shaft face into the bobbin case case or out? I'm assuming the thread revolves clockwise before engaging the tensioning parts on the bobbin case but please correct me if I'm wrong.
You may laugh at my questions but I bought this machine with others for the proverbial good price. Practiced with it where I bought it (where it worked perfectly and I actually stitched sample soles well!), transported it 200 miles in the back of my van, suffered husbandly wrath, set it up in my shop, stitched a couple of practice soles and the thread broke. When I checked the the bobbin, it came out of the machine eliminating my reference on which way it threaded. Didn't give it too much thought then because it needed a good cleaning of the encrusted wax and leather dust. I was about to take DW's class and didn't really need it operational just yet. Now that I'm just about finished with acquiring all the things/machines necessary for bootmaking I need to tame the iron beast, or a least worship appropriately in a humble fashion to appease the stitcher gods. Any tips, photos etc. thankfully appreciated.
I need some help on the bobbin threading. Does the side of the bobbin with the raised circle around the bobbin shaft face into the bobbin case case or out? I'm assuming the thread revolves clockwise before engaging the tensioning parts on the bobbin case but please correct me if I'm wrong.
You may laugh at my questions but I bought this machine with others for the proverbial good price. Practiced with it where I bought it (where it worked perfectly and I actually stitched sample soles well!), transported it 200 miles in the back of my van, suffered husbandly wrath, set it up in my shop, stitched a couple of practice soles and the thread broke. When I checked the the bobbin, it came out of the machine eliminating my reference on which way it threaded. Didn't give it too much thought then because it needed a good cleaning of the encrusted wax and leather dust. I was about to take DW's class and didn't really need it operational just yet. Now that I'm just about finished with acquiring all the things/machines necessary for bootmaking I need to tame the iron beast, or a least worship appropriately in a humble fashion to appease the stitcher gods. Any tips, photos etc. thankfully appreciated.
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Georgene McKim
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uncle_bob
Re: Curved needle
Here's the bobbin stuff
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uncle_bob
Re: Curved needle
Georgene,
In the above photo, PT. C need to face toward you "not facing into the machine" when placing in the shuttle, "the machine".
Good Luck,
Bob
In the above photo, PT. C need to face toward you "not facing into the machine" when placing in the shuttle, "the machine".
Good Luck,
Bob
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uncle_bob
Re: Curved needle
DW,
Tried to whiten it up for you!
Tried to whiten it up for you!
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uncle_bob
Re: Curved needle
more tidbits
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