The Crispin Colloquy

I'm buying equipment for my boot shop, and I'm looking at two curved needles. One is a reasonably good deal on a machine that is in good condition, stitches well, and is owned by someone I know and trust. The other is a great deal on a Landis G. I don't personally know the owner, but he says it's in good condition. Is there anything I could look for on the machine to let me know if it's in good shape? Any recommendations in this situation?

Also, I have a 31-15 that needs a roller foot. Does anyone have a source for a roller foot, or if it's already been posted on the forum somewhere, could you tell me where to look?

M

In checking the G, grab the Looper and see if there is any play. A small amount is accectable, but alot of play will only cause problems. Regardless of which machine you get, put a new table on the machine. Each person stitches differently - a new table will save you headaches later.
Lee Card
Custom Shoe Repair
SgtLCard@aol.com

Anonymous,

Concerning the 31-15 roller presser foot, I would call Mark at Industrial Sewing Machine (503-759-4373).

Jake

I stitched three pair of soles on my curved needle yesterday. They all had narrow square toes, which I think is the hardest toe to stitch. Here's the good news: They're all perfect! I can finally FEEL that machine as I'm stitching. I'm working with it instead of against it. It is so cool, and now I wish I had more soles to stitch!

Lisa

Lisa,

About a month ago, the FORCE touched my sole! It was one of the happiest days of my life.

Congratulations!

Jake,
Yeah, it was an almost spiritual experience for me too!

Lisa

Anyone ever use a rapid E. I have stitched Maybe 25 total pratice soles. It is so much easier than the G. If anyone shoes up the Friday before the Reunion in September I'll let you see if you think so.

Gary,

I have a Sutton 317 (Rapid E), but I can't share the same enthusiasm as you to it's simplicity. As I stated earlier, something just clicked to the "feel" about a month ago. The machine and I are at good terms at the moment, but it was a looong time coming!!! Maybe I'm just slooow!

Glad to hear you're doing fine with it.

I tell you Jake I think most curved needles want to eat me anyway. But Using the G and the rapid E seems like night and day for me. Again remember I am using pracitce soles! I do not have the rest of the boot under me Yes I know that makes a BIG difference but it is a lot harder for me on the G.
Hey, come to the Wichita show I'll make you a burger and will discuss the finer points of curved needles

Gary,

Thanks for the invite! I may get to take you up on that.

Hey, I make a mean burger! It will even growl at you. I hope I did make this clear. The E is easier than the G for me. Not that I'm any good at it. As I was looking over my last post I noticed my mistakes. Shoe and pratice was written in hast and I should of spell checked.

All,
The best way to learn to stitch on your CN is to sew some old geezer's vamp down to the welt. This will teach you real quick. I have found, though that sewing a new pair of boots is a lot easier that learning to follow the stitches of a Luchesse or an uneven TL when re-soling.

My Father once had an old "F" model and an "L" but I have used only "G"s for my entire career and as long as they are still around I will use them because I love um...I think they are the most trouble free of all the CNs..TR

Tex,

I take it from your above post that you sew your outsole with the last OUT. Is this correct?

Jake,
No, definitely not! I was talking about sewing repair work.
The new boots have the last in them till after I have stacked the heels and they are ready to grind and finish..TR

Hey Gary,
I wasn't aware that there was any real big differences between the F, G, and K. They use alot of the same parts. I never got to sew on an L or E. Never had enough money to own one. I do have a newer cabinet model made by auto soler,, but I think the head is really a Landis K.
I think learning to sew on the CN is probably one of the more memorable experiences in life. I remember the first time trying to sew on it. The old guy teaching me was like a Dad teaching his kid to ride a bike. He was mostly jumping around behind me and looking over my shoulder. Pretty much laughing at me, shaking his head and rolling his eyes..
Oh yea and I concur with Tex, the worst thing in life darn near is to sew the vamp down or run off the welt at the toe, leaving stitches and cut welt exposed.
AL Franklin

I recall a similar experience being taught on my Landis-12L. Just a few years back DW and Bob Galvin had visited me here [and Bob made several repeat visits]. They heard my laments, and both did their best to get me acquainted with the beastie. After much rumination over the machine, a one-owner job built in '67 [a mere "baby" as things go], still with the red paint dots on the oil ports, shiny chrome, perfect Bakelite cowl, and a complete set of wrenches, it was obviously low mileage. Both agreed if I had *any* problem using it, it was caused strictly by "operator error", not anything "wrong" with the machine, after they found out that I'd adjusted a certain thing backwards that is. It's one of the few great bargains in my life, I snagged it with several others [a Landis (MacKay) 88, Auto Soler, etc.] off the charitable widow of our local shoe repair guy for $500, a steal I'm told.

My "dance-instructors'" greatest advice: "the operator must always adapt to the machine, because the machine will never adapt to the operator". How you hold the work and press it into the maw of the beast, how you present it to the table, how you swiftly switch hands as you zip around the toe, not to mention bobbing and weaving, tipping and tilting the shoe or boot as it feeds to keep it perfectly tangent to the table as it makes its way around the curves of the welt in the waist, make this more like the Cha-Cha or Tango than just sticking something under a needle and stepping on the gas. It's hard to describe, but while you're sole-stitching you're up close, very close; if your shoulders aren't twisting and dipping, if your torso and knees don't bow a bit here and there, and if you're standing stone still and trying to let the machine feed the work at arm's length, obviously you're doing it all wrong. It is truly a "dance".

Want a treat? Contact the Cove Shoe Company in Martinsburg, PA, [they have a website on here somewhere] and beg them for a copy of their video 'How Quality Shoes Are Made'. This is roughly an hour-long video tour of their Goodyear welted factory, and focuses on the speed and accuracy of the various machine operations from clicking and closing, to final polish. You'll blush. The guy plunging shoe after shoe through the Goodyear inseaming machine, plus the one passing what seemed like 20 pair a minute through a Rapid-e CN with perfect results, taught me a new respect for machines and their operatives. Okay, so they can't make the whole shoe, by hand with "knife and fork", or boar bristles, but man, I'll tell you, it's humbling to watch. It cured me of ever thinking I could compete with a factory, DW

Al S., you forgot about the tongue. I have to hold mine JUST right as I do my little dance or it is all messed up. Al F., I don't
know the difference in the machines I just know that when I stand in front of that Landis G it raises my heart rate, little sweat
beads on my forehead, and my stomach aches. I am not kidding. It's like the thing is going to eat my "soul" :o) (corny humor,
forgive me it's Friday) The Rapid E just seems quieter or smoother or just easier for me. The funny thing I was going to sell the
E and keep the old run down F. Brian talked me out of it. I told him I did not think the Rapid E was worth a few hundred. I
found out different, I'm glad I kept it.
I have one experience you can laugh at. I have a bunch of plastic soles that came out of the shop I bought. They are what I
practice with. I was showing a bootmaker how nice the Rapid E ran. I noticed he was really looking at something. He finally
asked if I was using hot wax or thread lube. I looked at him kind of funny. He opened the box and of course the thing was
spotless. I cleaned it out when I bought the shop! ...It runs even better now. Yes, everyone have your good laugh. I'm sure I'm
going to make multiple more. By the way now that I have bragged on it you know what's going to happen.

Gary,

You're right about the tongue. I forgot that part. Mine's usually just clinched to the back of my chattering teeth at the stitcher. Just wait until you start trying to steer that beast with the channel-knife down, and keep those stitches falling right into the channel around a square toe--the awl and needle are popping through over "here", but the channel blade is cutting over "there" ahead of things, and you need to turn a sharp corner and pivot on some invisible spot somewhere in between. Enough to send you to awls and bristles.

Ok get this,
I have an attachment that allows me to sideseam on the CR! It is a machined wide foot and table that holds the side seam down so you can sew side seams. Again the old wise one that taught me to use the machine said it cant be done... None the less I showed him. Just goes to show old dogs can learn new tricks. It does take alittle guts though. AL Franklin


I went to a Army function tonight wearing a pair full quills. Thanks Cindy!

All messages posted prior to 25 February 2002 have been moved to the first Crispin Colloquy CD Archive. Those interested in obtaining a copy of this CD need to contact admin@thehcc.org

Hello out there.
I just bought a model F curved needle stitcher and after reading the posted notes about sewing
I am wondering if I made the right choice. The manual with this machine is very light on information. Anyone out there have any tips for a
greenhorn trying to learn something new.
Tom Dout

Tom,

I have a Landis Model F curved needle stitcher and I wouldn't take two new ones for it. It stitches like a dream. Keep it oiled, make sure all the "little" things are in proper working order and it should serve you well.

Good Bootmaking,

Riley

The model F is an excellent machine, but like any other, won't work if worn or dirty--and curved needle machines attract, manufacture, and retain dirt as no other machine can. Two suggestions: use linen thread and cold (liquid) wax. Yes, I DO know that dacron thread and hot wax will produce a better stitch, but they sometimes lead to difficulties with older machines.

Everyone,

Yesterday I got ambitious! I tore into my curve needle and removed every roller and do-hickee I saw that moved or was dirty. Removed the wax pot which had several layers of mummified wax in it. Cleaned every thing with acetone, oiled, and replaced back into the beast.

Question: What does everyone use in their machines with regards to wax and thread?

Thread lube and dacron (polyester)?
Liquid wax and linen?
Hot wax and something?

Appreciate the future responses!

Howard Heyen from St. Louis sold me the machine. He advised me to use linen and thread lube only in the machine. Yesterday I put thread lube and dacron back into the machine. It sews sweet now!

Jake,

I use thread lube and dacron in my Model F...works very well for me.

A friend of mine cleaned his curve needle and it never worked the same. I don't know why those monsters attract dirt like they do, but I keep mine as clean as possible and well oiled. I'm afraid to do what you did...the crud may be holding the thing together...what's that about rusty nails and boots.......

Good Bootmaking,
Riley