Curved needle

[Tex Robin]

Jake.

Thread lube and polyester thread works for me too. I have been using both for as long as I can remember. I use # 6 right on both my machines, and I use moter oil in my straight needle for lube. You never need to oil it.......TR

[jake]

Tex,

One follow-up....on your curved needle, do you use one smaller size thread (5 right) for your bobbin? I use one size smaller.

Thanks for the quick response!

[jake]

Hey Riley,

I got tickled reading your post. Like I said, I GOT AMBITIOUS!

Thanks!

[Tex Robin]

Jake,

I am using # 6 on top and bottom at present....TR

[Len Boden]

I cannnot for the life of me remember his name, but the guy who was Landis number one man in Texas many years ago to me to use bar and chain oil to lube the big stitichers. He said it was the same oil sold with Landis label in those years. He said it adheres to the metal better than motor oil. He lived in east Dallas and he overhauled a couple machines for me years ago. Tex, you probably remember his name. He was working on my striaght needle when he had a stroke and went to nursing home.
Len

[Tex Robin]

Len,

The only man I remember was Carlo Sellari. He developed the Sellari wax and thread lub. He used to repair machines and he came to see me a couple of times in the 70s and 80s......TR

[paul]

Jake,
I've been using the same lube, thread and oil as Tex, in my Rapid E, for 20yrs or so.

I'm with Riley, I've heard some horror stories of the results of such a thorough cleaning. Good to hear an opposite experience.

I've tried to keep mine as clean and oiled as I dare. I keep it covered any more, as I may only use it one or two days a week. I hate oil spots on my work, though.

PK

[jake]

Hey Fellers,

Thanks for all the quick replies. I just wanted to hear what I had already come to grip with on materials for the curved needle beast. But just because some have come to the same conclusion, don't let that keep others from posting their opinions. Inquiring minds want to know.

Just for the record, my rollers had so much build-up wax from years of use, that they were frozen. I've know this for quite some time, but was afraid of performing surgery. I'm glad I did it. You'll learn alot from tearing something down and cleaning it.

[pablo]

Len,
Bud Rodgers was in east Dallas selling machinery &
supplies til mid/late 80's. Lost track of him after that.
pablo

[bct]

Jake, it depends on your machine. I have used Barbros Linen thread and hot wax in Oklahoma. Oil and Barbros Linen thread. Since then it's Bulldog thread and thread lube. I have a Landis Model G from Willie Lusk shop that probably had not been stitched on since the 70's. Cleaned the hot wax out, put in the thread lube and Bulldog thread, and oiled the rollers and it stitched right off the bat.

"Stitching For The Brand"
Brian C. Thomas

[Len Boden]

Tex, Pablo....sorry. Neither one of those guys. He was short and stocky, lived on a corner just north of Mesquite. Ben Quatrocci (sp) of B & J leather put me on to him 25 years ago. It doesn't seem to take as much bar and chain oil and machine stays pretty clean. If someone comes up with the name I will remember. It is just those 70 yrs. gettin' in my way.
Len

[pablo]

Len,
See civil war posting
pablo

[gcunning]

Jake,Tex
I have the Sellari thread lube, same size bobbin and thread. Since I make SO many boots per year I really know what I'm talking about
Jake, I have taken parts of my Rapid E apart - little parts at a time. One time I thought I had a broken part and was going to weld it up - found out it was supposed to be that way-. Sure made me feel stupid.
Oil lube-
I use bar and chain oil on several pieces of machinary. Not ALL bar and chain oil is treated equally. I use bar and chain made by Stihl.

[Len Boden]

Pablo,
What were you refering to on Civil War posting?
Len

[pablo]

Len,
I posted on the wrong listing and wanted to alert you to my mistake.
pablo

[dw]

Marvel Mystery Oil...high film cling.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[erickgeer]

So..... I'm a proud new owner of a Landis 12, Model K Stitcher....

I've been trying to get myself acquainted with the beasty - practicing sewing around soles.... ATTEMPTING to adjust the tension - I think I'm having trouble getting over having the bobbin on the top.
Today I went to make another attempt at stitching, This time I tried a double layer of soling instead of one, just to see what it would do to the placement of the lock - which was already off. I also forgot to pull newly lubricated thread through the tension and replace the bobbin thread. - the needle has now gotten out of wack and broken, so that the looper is hitting the stub when it is at the bottom of its stroke.
I think things got mucked up when I tried to sew too much sole with dry thread.
I didn't discover the broken and banging needle until after changing the thread.

The big worry (aside from having to change the needle for the first time) is... have I knocked the timing off with my fiddling about?

I'm finding the directions dissagreeable - and I have every manual that I know to exist.

I know I'll get it eventualy, but for now, I just need to be able to get it running for the first time.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Erick

[dw]

Erick,

It is doubtful that you've knocked the timing off. However if the thread looper and the way in which the needle and awl are installed aren't synchronized, it can seem as if the timing is off. I doubt the dry thread had anything to do with it either although waxed thread is preferable if you don't want to break thread.

You have to be sure that the thread looper will clear the needle/hook as the needle withdraws back up to the top of the bobbin case. But it only has to "just" clear...if you see what I mean. Then you have to set the awl and the needle so that they are almost touching as the awl withdraws through the area where the soling leather will be (you have to make that adjustment with no material under the presser foot)...or just as the awl is about to pass the work table. The less clearance between the awl and the needle as it passes through the work the less chance for deviation.

Wetting your sole with a spritz is helpful. Setting your channel knife to cut a bit deep is helpful. Sharpening your channel knife so that it spreads the channel wider is very helpful. Don't try to force your way around the toe. Keep the sole level --left to right--at all times. this requires that you understand that the sole is curved so "level" actually means at a tangent to the point your needle and awl are piercing the leather. This will mean raising the heel as you start and dropping it as you go around the toe, and raising it again and you come back towards the heel. Keep the sole level front to back--same thing about tangents. Pump your "go-pedal." This will allow you to slow down and almost place each stitch while going around the toe...without losing the momentum of the drive motor.

Just some tips. Keep at it. Good luck.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[jake]

Hey Erick,

Boy....I know how ya feel. I've yet to master the "fair-lady". Invested many an hour and many pieces of soling. All I can say is, "Hang in there!"

I hate to offer something that doesn't involve me, but you're located close to Larry Waller's place. Maybe he has one of those nice manuals left from a HCC meeting a few years back. It has some good information on the "workings" of the Landis curve needle. Great illustrations too.

Wish I had the magic bullet to give ya, but I ain't. Take care!

P.S. I just thought of something. I have that manual in Adobe .pdf format somewhere on a disk. If all fails, I could send it to ya via email.

[erickgeer]

DW,
Thanks for the tips, I wasn't sure about waxed thread- have a couple spools of Maine Thread that I would like to use. Should I use thread lube in conjunction with the waxed stuff?

The reason I think the timing might have been forced out is because it was catching the thread just fine as of Thursday (maybe Tuesday) when I last had a few minutes to play. The problem, originaly, was the lock was being pulled towards the bobbin side even though the bobbin thread pulls freely like the manual says.

Jake,
I'm going to look over the PDF's, but I think that I have hard copies of the same (they have the same titles anyway). I got them before they "disapeared."

Thanks guys, tomorrow I'll attempt to change the needle. I have to go work on some regular sewing machines down at the school first.

Night All,
Erick

[dw]

Erick,

I'd be careful using the waxed Maine Thread especially if you are new to the curved needle. [I've often wondered about that myself...figured I might replace my white stitcher thread with something more colourful--like raspberry or turquoise ]

And while using it with a thread lube might work, I very seriously doubt that it will pull off the spool easily enough to avoid some sort of foul up. Beyond that, the congealed wax might create a problem, too. The machine was designed to work with wax in a liquid form--it was built with a heated wax pot and hard wax was used--and got very balky when the hot wax cooled.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[djulan]

Eric..
There are so many variables with the Landis Outsole stitchers. In agreement with DW'a offerings, I might add.......

Set the machine for use with either hot wax or cold lubrication and thread it as was intended (ask your local finder (maybe 7 cord top thread and 6 cord bobbin thread)) be sure all the rollers and tension mechanisms are clean, oiled (lightly) and moving freely. Use fresh wound bobbins and pull the top thread till it is fresh. Follow your manuals setting the needle and awl. Turning by hand -when they are at the point in their stroke where the needle is about to follow the awl down through the work (as seen without work on the table)they should be about the thickness of a dime apart - depending on wear - and this occurs just above the table. Turning by hand - once the needle is pulling the thread up past the work and ready to drop off to the looper the looper needs to pick up only the thread strand on the right -as you face the machine. Here may be your problem. Again refer to your manual and set the thread looper. Maybe it knocked out of adjustment, thereby hitting the needle stub as described. The looper should just pass the tip of the needle as it picks up thread and removes it from the needle barb and dropping onto the shuttle point, this is a keen adjustment, and the manual settings will help.
As far as the lock drifting -That's another story, and may be just a matter of a few part replacements. First I would replace the wax stripper. If the lock is still off, check the thread lock roller for excessive wear.
It is helpful to know a mechanic (which I'm not) for furthur problems. But you are welcome to email or call for clarification.

David

[erickgeer]

I successfuly changed the needle in my stitcher (thank you larry) I didn't see the instructions for that in any of my books. Now I am back to trying to fix the tension, thank you to everyone who gave me some suggestions. The lock appears to be a little better with the knife set deep (thank you DW). Maybe I'll try and do some house cleaning tomorrow (thank you David).
I have hardcopies and digital copies of all the manuals (thanks Jake)
If anything, I can't seem to get enough tension on the top thread (not the bobbin)

I have a question about the "thread lock"- the manual says that I shouldn't be able to pull the thread when the take-up lever is in it's lowest position - if I can pull it when I'm putting significant strength into it does this count? When I'm looking at the machine, the parts that look like the ones in the diagram don't look like they have anything to do with the thread lock.

Lot's of stuff to look into tomorrow.
Thanks all,
Erick

[Joe DiGerolamo]

NEED HELP!!!. Just purchased a Landis 12,Model F sole stitcher. I am in need of a manual or instructions to thread wax or non waxed thread on the machine. This machine is a classic and i do lioke it. BUT i need help threading this machine. Please email me or send link on the procedure This will really help...Thank you so much., Joe

[Georgene McKim]

I could also use a manual for the Landis Model F.
specifically the threading diagram.

Anyone have a source for the German pattern style of lasting pinchers? Or extras for sale?

Georgene McKim
pres@georgene.net