sewing machines

[artvanhecke]

Hi Nat,

Yes it does look like it.

I came upon a Pfaff 591 a few months ago, it looked ever so like a 491 except maybe if I remember correctly, it had an oil feed for the hook under the post. I tend to run my machines slow, so I put a drop of oil in the hook race every 6-8 hours, even on the machines that have oilers, just don't trust them at low speeds.

Art

[dennis_lanigan]

I am looking to get a flat bed machine that can sew shoe uppers along with canvas, vinyl, and oil cloth. I've settled upon the Singer 111W155 with a servo motor. If I can slow it down and put the right feet on, can anyone tell me if this is a horrible idea? I am very inexperienced in all of this, but I am learning quickly...(my budget is in the 5-700 range).

[artvanhecke]

Hi Dennis,

A lot of boot and shoe makers use the Singer 31-15 or 31-20 equipped with a roller foot for their work. Most I've seen are still using the clutch motor. In very good condition and a servo motor, they go in the $200-$500 range. With the clutch motor you can find them in the free to $300 range. The 111 is a good machine (the Navy used them for parachute gear for years) with a walking foot setup that would be good for general medium weight leatherwork up to 3/8 inch or so. As always condition is important as they are a well used machine and there are dogs out there. I've never seen a roller foot on a 111, but it has probably the most feet available of any machine. They still use that foot style today on new machines of this general class.

Art

[dennis_lanigan]

I got a 31-15 with roller foot setup. I wanted to thank Art, Glenn and others for the advice on what to get.

[lancepryor]

When I was at Marcell's, I used a Minerva flatbed with a bottom roller feed for closing.

Does anyone know what other flatbed machines have a bottom roller feed? If not, what do folks prefer for closing uppers (not doing the inlay type work that a 31 class machine is good for)?

Also, I would love to hear people's opinions about servo motors. I have long contemplated getting one, but some sites say they don't have sufficient power. Anybody with experience, pro or con?

Thanks in advance.

Lance

[luckyduck]

Lance,

I really like the servo on my artisan machine. I've never found it to lack power, as it will sew anything I can fit under the wheel.

Other than power, the servo machines are much quieter than clutch ones and can easily be set to do 1 stitch at a time.

Paul

[artvanhecke]

Lance,

If you have looked at the Sailrite video about servo motors, don't believe it. I have machines with servo motors, both brush and brushless. After watching the Sailrite video, I sat at each of my machines (all using different brands) and tried to hold the balance wheel while starting the machine. I couldn't hold it still, and I'm a big boy. Sorry but BS is BS, you can't hold the wheel still and depress the pedal, even lightly. I can stitch one stitch per second or less successfully on even my big Highlead machines. I also have servo motors on my skiver and slitter (although I always run them full bore), and I'm not quite brave enough to try and hold one of them back.

The SCR motors are nice but quite pricy. I have a VFD (variable frequency drive) powering the 3 phase motor on my lathe which works very well, the SCR is much the same concept, and Sailrite did a good job on the unit they sell, but like I said, the price is quite steep. Also, it is a bit of overkill, a servo costs around $160 and the cost differential just makes it impractical except for mobile applications where size and weight are a factor.

I am not aware of a flatbed with the roller under. I could suggest you take a post like the Pfaff 491 and build a table to fit around the post, giving you essentially what you want, and a post when you need that.

Art

[dw]

I sat at each of my machines (all using different brands) and tried to hold the balance wheel while starting the machine. I couldn't hold it still, and I'm a big boy. Sorry but BS is BS, you can't hold the wheel still and depress the pedal, even lightly.

Never say never...

I have two of my Singers set up with servo motors as well as my Pfaff 491. The Pfaff is running a V-belt and very hard to control with the hand on the fly wheel...but do-able..albeit barely.

The Singers run round leather belts and I constantly and very sucessfully control them via the fly wheel and my right hand...as I was taught.

One stitch at a time...under power.

The old 110W class Singer flatbed was rotary fed from the bottom. The machine has a "transmission" that lets you shift to one of three(only) stitch lengths determined by intrchangeable gear ratios.

I had one of those and while I would not want to have only a 110w...there are some jobs only a 31 class can do...I liked the machine very well. It fed the material so smoothly.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[artvanhecke]

DW,

Your quote of me states that I could not hold the balance wheel STILL when I applied power. The Sailrite video shows someone holding the pulley on a servo still with two fingers while applying power, implying that there is not enough power available at low speed to do the job. I use v-belts on everything but my 12 K and L, and I cannot reach up to the balance wheel on the v-belt machines and have much if any effect if the power is still driving. What I was really saying is not to worry about the servo motors in the power department, they have plenty to go around. The Sailrite video was trying to imply something different, I was trying to set that straight.

Art

[tomo]

Hi lance,
I've got a little Singer Professional with a wheel instead of traditional feed dogs (and the wheel instead of a presser foot as well)
I love sewing with it. The stitches look good and the machine is sweet to use

[amuckart]

I have a Pfaff 34-5 with a wheel feed instead of drop feed, it stitches beautifully, but lacks reverse. I have an almost identical class 34 head (can't remember the sub model) with drop feed that has reverse as well. It drop stitches though and I've not yet figured out why.

Both have a passive roller foot, like the 31-15, which I suspect this is a later-model clone of.

I want to get rid of both flatbeds and replace them with a left-handed cylinder arm machine like a Singer 18-2 or a Seiko TF6 which should be considerably more versatile.

[amuckart]

When it comes to servo motors, I think a lot depends on the particular motor. I have a cheap Chinese servo much like the one in the Sailrite video and with the speed cranked down I can stop it with two fingers on the pulley, just as they did. With the speed cranked right up it's difficult to get low speed control out of it. That's not an issue for me because it's connected to a speed reducer and driving a big cylinder arm machine now but when it was on the Pfaff flatbed it was annoying. The Pfaff now has a clutch which is much easier to control than that particular servo.

I also have a slightly less cheap Chinese servo that has plenty of low-speed torque, and good servos will be unstoppable even at their lowest speed.

"Servo" just means there's a feedback loop in the control system that senses the speed the motor is running at. It doesn't imply anything about the way the speed is controlled.

In a DC motor such as are used on sewing machines, the supplied voltage controls the rotational speed, but the current controls the torque. Cheap motors just use a resistor to control the speed, which means that at low speeds you get very little current and therefore low torque.

Better controllers use some form of voltage regulation that allows the controller to supply a variable voltage to the motor to control the speed without dropping the current and therefore the torque.

[dennis_lanigan]

Alasdair, any specific servo motors you would recommend? I can slow the clutch on my 31-15 pretty well so far, but if I have too much coffee................

[amuckart]

I don't really know anything about what's available outside of New Zealand and it depends entirely on your budget. Efka and Quick-Rotan make excellent motors, but you'll pay a lot more for the motor than you did for your 31-15 in the first place. I know of one person who swears by a servo with inbuilt gear reduction, the Sew-Pro 500GR, but I have zero experience with it myself.

If you're not specifically after something quiet and energy efficient, then practice, the right size of leather drive belt, and a well-serviced clutch will get you where you need to go. There are various adjustments that can be made to clutch motors that make them much easier to control, and having the clutch plates replaced can make a big difference too.

One trick that Al Saguto has suggested on here in the past is putting a tennis ball under the back of the pedal while you're getting used to feathering the clutch. It helped me a little bit, but not nearly as much as getting the clutch properly adjusted and set up in the first place.

[dennis_lanigan]

I have a question about sewing machine oil.

I'd prefer to not use Mineral Oil (lily white) as the main sewing machine lubricant as from my research it looks carcinogenic. Is it possible to use Neatsfoot Oil not only as the thread lubricant (like in a singer 29K) but throughout the machine?

[kemosabi]

Did Pfaff ever produce a 491 machine made somewhere besides Germany?
I don't mean clones, but genuine Pfaff.

Thx,
-Nat

[gshoes]

I just picked up a Singer 29-4 Patcher today. I was hoping that I could get some advice on getting this machine running before I touch it. It obviously needs to be oiled and has been stored for many years without use. I am wondering how I can tell if this is a long arm or the short arm. Also was it originally made with a flat surface bed to go with it? There is the hole in the frame in the horizontal surface below the needle and to the left and I was also wondering what that is for?

Geri

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[das]

Geraldine,

The 29-4s are the older Singer patchers--WWI era--and usually the most worn-out in the patcher family. Expect to replace many parts (Pilgrim Sewing Machine Co., Quincy, MA, has all) to get it tight and sewing like new. On the 29-4 the weakest wear spot is the rack and pinion system (long rack, short rack, driving pinion, shuttle carrier, and follower pinion) that drive the shuttle. All those parts may need to be replaced, the pivot hole sleeved, and if the cast iron "arm" race is worn inside it might be a "loss". In a good tight machine, after cleaning/oiling, you should not be able to wiggle the needle bar up and down at the needle clamp, nor the shuttle carrier to and fro, more than maybe 1/16". Some "lash" is necessary, but too much and the timing of the needle's eye and point of the shuttle hook will be inconsistent and it will mysteriously skip stitches.

Before you oil it, thread it, and take it for a test drive, download the manual and locate every oil point/hole. Get some of that automotive aerosol brake cleaner (not carburetor cleaner), squirt it via the red pipette generously (outdoors) into all oil ports, and use a wooden toothpick to be sure they are clear and free of crud. Race the head via the treadle until the brake cleaner runs out clear. There are several cam roller and stud bearings that run in eccentric cam-ways, some are inside the head. Be sure these are rust-free, clean, and spin freely. Oil it with 30-weight non-detergent motor oil only. Light weight sewing machine oils will not cling to the surfaces, they drip right out and do not give you the lubrication you need. Nice black automotive wheel bearing grease is good in the cam-ways.

Thread it up and test it. You may have a winner, or you may have a boat anchor. Missing or broken parts, like the tiny flat thread tension spring mounted on the needle bar (only accessible by disassembly) is critical to proper operation. If it's bent up, broken off or missing, time for a complete tear-down restoration, or take it to someone who does these.

Singer used to provide a folding wooden "table" that clamped onto the arm for sewing flat work. If you're handy you can make one following the illustrations in the manual.

Not sure which hole you're referring to. In the head, surrounding the needle bar, there's a threaded hole on the left for a set screw to stop the feeder foot rotating freely when not wanted. I do not seen it on yours. Yours is a "short arm".

You've got your summer restoration project now, keep us posted how it goes along.

[walrus]

Geri
I think that hole is used to hold the drop leg of the folding flat bed attachment to give the table more stability when it is installed. Hope this helps.

[gshoes]

Al,

Thank you so much for the quick response. Your help was just the start that I needed.

When I picked up this machine 2 blocks away from my house I was very hopeful and excited about the find. I paid more than I wanted and less than she was holding out for. She assured me that it was in running condition. Although she had never used it. I was concerned about buying it at even middle price because it may need a lot of repairs. She said that there is nothing that can be broken because it is industrial and because it is not electrical. I knew that was terribly inaccurate but I was just dying to get my hands on it and give it a go.

I went through an entire bottle of carb cleaner and I am going to get another can. With the machine hosed off initially the wheel began to turn freely.

I downloaded the manual and began threading the machine. I can not believe that I missed this in my excitement to buy the machine. The entire take up lever is missing. So much for the machine running.

I will keep you posted in my progress.

geri

[das]

Geri,

Sorry you started out with carb cleaner--it eats those lovely Singer decals right off. Brake cleaner is gentler. I guess there's no going back to the seller over her claim it was in "running condition" if the flywheel was frozen and the take-up (and its spring and screws?) lever is missing?

Like I said, if the rack and pinion races in the arm itself are not worn out, and there's not too much up/down play in the needle bar, with lots of parts and TLC you might well end up with a reliable patcher.

The mysterious "hole" is still bugging me. The photo does not show the thumb-screw that should be visible sticking off the very left of the cylindrical head surrounding the needle bar. The flat work table has a hinged fold-down leg at the left side that rests in a slot in a raised dome on the surface of the stand. The right end of the table has two flat "L" shaped metal hooks that hook behind two protuberances on the base of the head, and under the arm is a "U" shaped cross-member with a big set-screw that clamps tight to the bottom of the arm to secure all in place. Not sure what Larry's drinkin'

[chuck_deats]

Geri,
You do have a project, but they are a decent machine when you get it running. Al's advice is excellent. Your machine is very similiar to mine which has run well for several years. Would send pictures of specific areas or dimensions for a home made table and drawer, if desired. Did not have to rebuild so don't know about that. Did clean, oil and adjust.
Chuck

[chuck_deats]

Don't think the 29-4's had the thumb screw for head rotation. Think the K models did. Would be a good addition, but a leather wedge works.
Chuck

[gshoes]

Al,

The hole was for a flat bed leg support just as Larry suggested. Thanks Larry. I found a picture somewhere online of a homemade table for this machine. I might try that if I can get it running well.

I miss spoke earlier. It was brake cleaner and not carb cleaner.

So is there something other than the take up lever missing?

I bought the black wheel bearing grease, but I am unsure of where to apply it.

The presser foot moves in all directions with a big thumb like lever. It moves easily. I am wondering if it supposed to move that easy and if that is where you are talking about the wedge.

I ordered the take up lever from Pilgram. $20 and some size 14 needles.

Geri

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[gshoes]

Sorry for the big pics.

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