sewing machines

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D.A. Saguto--HCC

sewing machines

#1 Post by D.A. Saguto--HCC » Fri Mar 01, 2002 7:15 am

Here's another gear-head question or three: anybody out here own/use/love/hate a Singer 45k-70, cylinder arm, harness sewing machine? I've got a line on a fairly nice one, but it is missing the shuttle hook, and bobbin. Judging by cuttersexchange.com, and industrialsewmachines.com, the Singer 45k class machines were pretty popular, and in production up until fairly recently, so are parts hard to find, or not? I don't want end up with a boat-anchor machine that parts can't be found for. The one under consideration has a plain presser foot with short "arms". Can a presser roller be found or fitted to the 45k?

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Re: sewing machines

#2 Post by norwegian » Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:49 pm

Al,
I have a Singer 45K64 with a roller presser.
It seems to have been there for ever and it is very solid. It is hard to explain how it looks and is attached, but I suppose I can take a photo and post it! I had to weld-repair the needle plate which makes it possible to use, but the disadvantage is of course that the steel is soft as a result of the torch-welding. I have tried to get a new needle plate, but since the 64 has a straight needle pate compared to most of the other models with curved plates and feed dogs, it has so far been difficult to find any new parts. May be Bill Kinkaid can help us, what do you reccen, Al?

Until next time
JPM

D.A. Saguto--HCC

Re: sewing machines

#3 Post by D.A. Saguto--HCC » Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:21 pm

Jan P.,

I can only imagine the presser roller is screwed on like other Singers? No need to post more pictures. The last time I called Singer, a couple of months ago, the guy who answered the phone hadn't heard of Bill Kincade. I fear the worse. He said the parts situation has only gotten worse over the past year since Singer has officially gone belly up. They had some Japanese and Dutch parts sources, but as soon as they heard Singer was gone, they apparently stopped, or at least slowed production. Even the Singer tooling and the engineering drawings are supposedly gone now too. The only good[?] thing, all of the Singer parts manuals, service and operator's manuals they used to zap you $10-$15 each to photocopy, are now posted for free down-loading at www.cuttersexchange.com.

cmstrong

Re: sewing machines

#4 Post by cmstrong » Mon Mar 04, 2002 12:18 pm

Hi, All

Need some help here. I'am geting my little shop set up to start making boots again. I got a line on some sewing machines. The prices are right I'm thinking I can get each of them for a couple hundred dollars. One is an Adler 68-2-5 post machine.(anyone ever seen one) the other is a 47W singer. Im going to be making mostly a black duty type lace up boot, but will make a few pull on and packers too. I've talked with DW a little on this subject. I do have limited space for the shop so I got to get the machine right. I'm geting a 31-15 flat bed for sure. Thanks Mike

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Re: sewing machines

#5 Post by admin » Mon May 06, 2002 5:42 pm

Over 100 messages posted prior to 25 February 2002 have been moved to the first Crispin Colloquy CD Archive. Those interested in obtaining a copy of this CD need to contact admin@thehcc.org

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Re: sewing machines

#6 Post by shane » Sat May 25, 2002 9:32 am

to all,
This isn't really a sewing machine question, but it is a machine question. does anyone out there have information on a model 10 fortuna skiver? I am looking at buying one, but I would like to know what your opinions may be on this machine. Thanks in advance.
Shane

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Re: sewing machines

#7 Post by dw » Sun May 26, 2002 7:05 am

Shane,

I am unfamiliar with the model 10. I have a model 50, I think, and if the size of the number is any indication, a model 10 might be pretty old. If so, be very very careful and don't pay much. Parts are hard to come by for old machines and Fortuna is no exception. More importantly, most older machine are badly in need of a complete rebuild.

The model 50 has a "drum" style knife. Some of the very oldest skivers had a spinning disc--and virtually no replacement available, that I know of. The model 50 is a bottom feed machine. The feed "dog" is usually, but not always, a coarse stone barrel. Properly adjusted and equipped for uppers, it will reliably skive and even split anything from 2 ounce to 10 ounce. But avoid trying to skive soling leather, etc., or rubber.

There are also models of Fortuna skivers--model 50K(?)--that have a top feed in addition to the bottom feed. Top feed machines are generally set up to skive soling leather and rubber and are usually fitted out with a knurled steel bottom feed as well as the top feed. They're not really set up for doing upper work. Unless you have previously used a skiver, own a model 50 or something similar, and/or are sure you want a top feed machine, I'd shy away from one of these for an all-around skiver.

Tight Stitches
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Re: sewing machines

#8 Post by shane » Sun May 26, 2002 2:33 pm

DW,
Thanks for your input. I will report on this machine when I get it. I already bought it. I didn't pay much for it and it has been rebuilt. Hopefully it will work well for me.
Shane

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Re: sewing machines

#9 Post by shane » Mon Jun 17, 2002 2:58 pm

All,
I thought I better make my report as promised. The model 10 fortuna skiver is a bottom feed with a bell knife. I am very pleased with it, though I am still getting it all figured out. But I skived all the components for 2 pair in roughly 1/2 an hour while getting it adjusted. Now I can do one pair in 5 minutes I am sure. And as they say time is money. I bought this machine on ebay. There is another skiver on there right now for 450.00, for any one interested.
skivin' and grinnin'
Shane

D.A. Saguto--HCC

Re: sewing machines

#10 Post by D.A. Saguto--HCC » Tue Jun 18, 2002 4:42 am

All,

Anybody have the manual for a Singer 45-K-70 cylinder-arm harness machine? I checked that on-line ex-Singer site with down-loadable manuals, and this model isn't there. Help.

The one I got Friday is very clean, and runs really smooth, but I can't figure out how to adjust the presser foot lift. I can adjust it up/down for lift while sewing, but when you lift and lock the foot up, to remove the work, it goes waaaay up. Is this just normal?

Mine also has a hot-wax pot on top, with gas pipes. Not that I'd try hot wax, but the little nipple where the rubber wax-wiper goes is smaller than a Landis, and has no rubber wax-striper. Is it is essential for upper thread tension? Anybody got any advice where the little Singer rubber wax-striper thingies can be had? Anybody tried linen thread in these with maybe Solari's liquid wax?

At the flywheel-end, the two linkage levers that control the feed-dog were missing a screw [the ones just inside the front access porthole]. I have found an old Singer screw that sort of fits, but if anybody has the parts book and can give me the part # I'd really appreciate it.

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Re: sewing machines

#11 Post by shane » Tue Jun 18, 2002 8:16 am

Al,
Butler brothers have a few parts for the 45 K. In there catalog there is about 8 pages of screws for singer machines. They show a picture of the part and a part number, so you will need figure out how to determine what screw it is. There phone number is 207-784-6875. I hope this helps.
Shane

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Re: sewing machines

#12 Post by gcunning » Tue Jun 18, 2002 8:42 am

Al
I was wondering if you were still aroundImage
They say Earl Bain knows everthing about machines.
You might try and give him a call.
918-652-9555
Gary

Tom Mickel

Re: sewing machines

#13 Post by Tom Mickel » Sun May 30, 2004 9:39 am

Hi All,
I think that I have finally given up on my Singer 31-20. I just get too many skipped stitches. I have tried everything that I could find on the colloquy regarding fixing this problem but it is still happening and it's driving me nuts.
Can those of you with lots of experience please recommend a machine that I should get to sew vamps to tops and counters/counter covers to back panels. Thanks for any help you can give me. My wife may have me committed if I don't resolve this soon!

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Re: sewing machines

#14 Post by dw » Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:12 am

Tom,

Have you tried "timing" the machine. The reason I ask is that the 31 class machine is so dead simple that if there are skipped stitches it almost always comes down to timing, needles (bent or wrong system) or "operator error" Image

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erickgeer

Re: sewing machines

#15 Post by erickgeer » Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:23 am

I am looking for a flat bed machine for my students to use. I knew that 31 class machines are pretty easy to get a hold of, so that is what I suggested to my department head, but I wonder how sensitive they are. It'll get used by at least fifteen different people in a given month, that probably don't know how to sew in the first place. Lot's of operator error there. Am I asking for trouble, using a machine like that in this situation?

Thanks,
Erick

Tom Mickel

Re: sewing machines

#16 Post by Tom Mickel » Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:04 am

DW,
Operator error is always a consideration - at least in my case!

I've tried retiming the machine at least 10 times. I set it right on according to the manual that I have and I retarded it and I've advanced it. I've replaced the shuttle too because the old hook was quite rounded and could be moved in and out in the shuttle retainer. This BTW really improved the problem but did not resolve the problem. I can sew along for awhile and everything is fine and then it will get on a jag and just will not form the stitch.

I'm beginning to wonder if the problem is caused by the fact that I use latex cement (Neoweld) to glue my linings in. I could convince myself that the latex is somehow gripping the thread or making the thread stick to the needle so it can't form a loop when the needle bar starts to rise.

I've spent hours fiddling with the machine because I've never met any kind of machine that I couldn't fix but this one has me stymied.

I agree that it's probably something that I'm doing wrong or the way I have the machine adjusted.

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Re: sewing machines

#17 Post by dw » Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:07 am

Tom,

Well, you know I didn't mean anything by the comment about "operator error." But I had the same problems (kind of ) with a 31 class machine years ago. I tried everything, even had a repairman (he said he was the only "qualified" singer Technician on the West Coast) come in. He even bent the needle bar. In the end, it turned out to be timing.

But I think you are on the right track with blaming the glue. Before you get rid of it try two things...sewing with it on leather not glued together with NeoWeld. And also try thinning your glue pretty good. Might also let it sit overnight. Look carefully at the needle when this happens. If you see glue "crumbs" up on the shaft of the needle, it's the glue.

Erick,

I have two 31 class machines I've been using for over 20 years. I let students sew on them all the time. Once you get them set up and running smoothly you shouldn't have to do anything other than oil and clean them once a year. I don't think I've adjusted the timing on these machines...or anything else...for over ten years.

Tight Stitches
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tomo

Re: sewing machines

#18 Post by tomo » Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:01 pm

Hey Tom,
I think DW's right about the timing. If you smack the throat plate, or hit a buckle with the needle - at times the needle doesn't even have to break and it'll throw the timing out. Can you look 'inside' as the loop on the end of the needle forms?
Sometimes you can turn the needle very slightly to one side to facilitate it hooking on the bobbin case. Sometimes.
DW mentioned the needle bar being bent, check to make sure the hook is close enough to the needle to catch the loop in the thread.

Also, check your thread. We have two flatbed Brothers at work and one spat the dummy. It turned out to be the thread. My machine handles it but the other won't. When you looked at the thread closely you could see that it had flat spots on it. I think the machine that wouldn't sew with it, couldn't get the tension shells to grab the thread tight enough. It turned out to be a problem with the bonding of the thread during production.

If it's the glue, try a larger needle or lubricate the thread or needle with a silicon spray, bit of a hassle but if it isolates the problem, well and good.

Hope that helps.
More power to y'awl
Tom.

tomo

Re: sewing machines

#19 Post by tomo » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:31 am

Tom,
how are you getting on with that machine?
Is it still missing stitches?
Another thought. Sometimes, if there's insufficient pressure (tension) on the presser foot, it won't hold the work down tight enough as the needle's withdrawn and that can cause missed stitches. This is more common on heavier work and a walking foot, but worth considering.

Don't feel as if you're the first person with this problem. I think it's the main cause for old bootmakers and saddlers surrendering to the ravages of the demon drink. Image

More power to y'awl.

T.

sharon raymond

Re: sewing machines

#20 Post by sharon raymond » Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:44 pm

I have split all 5 of the 000 punches on an osborne hand-held single punch (I purchased 3 of them, 2 were mailed to me from the Osborne factory). I was told that if the ones from the factory split also, it must be user error. I followed advice to punch a piece of beeswax every 50 punches or so - still they split. I can't imagine what error I have been committing, simply punching chrome-tanned leather w/ another piece backing it. Osborne says they have received no other complaints. Any ideas?

Thomas Mickel

Re: sewing machines

#21 Post by Thomas Mickel » Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:21 pm

Hi all,
Thanks for all the suggestions regarding my Singer 31-20. I'm on vacation right now but when I get home I'm going to go through the suggestions one by one. I think that the main problem is the glue. I do get glue "crumbs" on the needle. Also, I'm going to start using a silicone lubricant and clean the machine and needle before starting a job.
I feel the need to get some shim material and shim out the shuttle holder so that the hook is closer to the needle. This might be radical but I have fooled around with lots of machinery and it kind of feels right.
Thanks to all the suggestions I don't feel like the machine is hopeless but that I just need to get the user(me) and machine operating on the same tack.
Thanks to all. TOM

shoestring

Re: sewing machines

#22 Post by shoestring » Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:55 pm

Sharon,
Try using candle wax it's not as stiff as bees wax especially the hobby craft type and placing your article on a poundo board.You can get the striking surface from a Tandy's store and use a wooden mallet.That should stop you from killing your tools.
Ed

rosymay

Re: sewing machines

#23 Post by rosymay » Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:59 pm

To Tom:
You have received some very good suggestions. The problems I have had
with sewing machines are as follows:
The timing, a damaged hook, and the wrong tension. Your problem has to almost be one of the three if not the glue. Sometimes a hook is damaged and
you can't tell by looking. If you can do so I would get a new one. If that hook is not just perfect it is guaranteed you will have trouble with the timing and the tension. I don't think just the glue will cause you the kind of trouble we are talking about here though it can contribute. You also need to make sure you have the correct
needle for the fabrication you are sewing.

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Re: sewing machines

#24 Post by dw » Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:06 pm

Tom,

If it's any consolation, I have the shuttle on both of my 31 class machines shimmed--with manila folder board.

But I think a big part of your problem is the glue. I am constantly aware of the possibility of "crumbs" when stitching latex or slightly uncured all-purpose. When I see crumbs on the needle, I immediatly wipe them off with my fingers and stitch--still watching for crumbs--til I reach the end of the stitch line. Then I put everything away for the day and don't try again until the glue has had time to cure. Usually at least 24 hours. No guarantees but that seems to work for me.

Tight Stitches
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erickgeer

Re: sewing machines

#25 Post by erickgeer » Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:29 pm

Tom,
my students often don't wait for the All-Purpose to get tacky, and then go to sew on it way too soon. This causes problems like you are describing. The same thing happens when you sew latex and Vinyl, without some sort of lubricent on the needle. I'm sure there is a better product, but one of my employers would use "Stitch Ease" when sewing difficult vinyl - it's very messy.

Erick

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