Seeking knowledge or survey

Share secrets, compare techniques, discuss the merits of materials--eg. veg vs. chrome--and above all, seek knowledge.
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donrwalker
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#776 Post by donrwalker »

I will be making a pair of western boots for one of our wounded warriors. Will be meeting him next month. He is an amputee, left leg below the knee. Any suggestions on how to fit the prosthetic would be appreciated. Have any of you done this? I am considering a zipper on the prosthetic boot. Will know more after meeting him.

Don
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#777 Post by paul »

Don,
Any chance his name is Danny? I spoke with a young fellow with left leg prosthesis earlier in January.
In any case, I was thinking zipper the same as you.
The last will need a lot of work I'm sure.
Good Luck,
Paul
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#778 Post by donrwalker »

Paul
his name is Justin. From South Dakota. Lost leg to land mine in Afghanistan. Will keep you posted.

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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#779 Post by paul »

Well good. I was ready to be disappointed, but I would have supported you if it had been the other guy. Maybe we can get a thing going.
Thanks for keeping me posted, I'll do the same.
Peace,
Paul

Anybody else had experience making boots/shoes for amputees?
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#780 Post by sorrell »

(Message edited by sorrell on March 16, 2013)
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#781 Post by sorrell »

I have two customers, each with one prosthetic foot. One refused to wear cowboy boots because he hated the exposed zipper and the other did wear boots but also hated the exposed zipper that happens when you simply cut the side seam out and put in a zipper. It's sort of like screaming, "LOOK! I have a prosthetic foot!"

When I make boots with a zipper I put a flap over the zipper. I put a fake pull on the flap and a fake side seam down the middle of it. You have to look pretty closely to see it's there. One tip: The flap won't lay flat at the top because of the zipper pull so you have to put a tab with a snap in it to hold it down.

Here's a picture of the boots while I was making them.
15217.jpg


And here are the completed boots.
15218.jpg
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#782 Post by moonpai »

Lisa WOW those boots look great.
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#783 Post by paul »

Thank you for sharing this close up look Lisa.
I remember when you were working on these. You showed some pictures on Facebook.
I may have some other questions later, if I may?
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#784 Post by donrwalker »

Thanks Lisa.
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#785 Post by sorrell »

Sure Paul, ask away.

Donald,
You're welcome!

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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#786 Post by 1947redhed »

:brickwall:
I seem to be perpetually moving things around, trying to squeeze more space from a space that was not originally intended to be a shoe shop. Eventually I'll move it to a new location.

I'm hoping to start a new discussion here and encourage pictures.
Topic: What was the best thing you did in laying out or equipping your shop? Any "how to's" that really made a difference?

I'm hoping to see some of your creative shop-built solutions, not just additional equipment purchases although I'm open to any repurposing/recycle ideas.
I included two smilies in this post, just clicked like DW says, so hopefully they're grinning at you.

If this isn't the right spot for this, I'm sure it will get moved! :uhuh:

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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#787 Post by Nathan »

I have been doing a lot of full leathers on shoes like Edward Green and Saint Crispin. Currently I round the top edge of the sole with sandpaper and my bone tool.
However I want to know what cutting tool is used to achieve the neat concave sole edge and then the slightly convex with lip on the sole edge. If I can do that with the finisher I am using it would save a whole heap of time.
Any thoughts?
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Re: Seeking knowledge

#788 Post by lisahelen »

I am interested in feedback on peoples "go to" needles for medium weight upper leathers? I see there are quite a few choices for "cutting points" on the Schmetz site??? Tips of the Trade? Thanks, Lisa
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Re: Seeking knowledge

#789 Post by dw »

lisahelen wrote:I am interested in feedback on peoples "go to" needles for medium weight upper leathers? I see there are quite a few choices for "cutting points" on the Schmetz site??? Tips of the Trade? Thanks, Lisa
For fine work and close stitching--14-18spi(stitches per inch)--a size 12 (80) and a round or tri tip is probably best. Start there as a reference.

For most work a size 14 (90) and a round or tri tip needle is fine although many like a narrow reverse twist. All twist or bladed needles (with the exception of the cross-point, I think) reduce the possible spi. With a narrow reverse twist, I stitch around 14spi.

For hard or thicker leathers I always use a blade point or a tri point and a heavier needle--size 16 (100).

As an aside the thread must be able to run through the needle easily. To test this string a needle on a loose piece of thread. If the needle won't slide from one end of the thread to the other, easily, the needle is too small or the thread too big.
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#790 Post by courtney »

I use 16 round point needles and 69 nylon thread on every pair I've made, not that many.
Works fine for me.

Courtney
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#791 Post by lisahelen »

Really appreciate the help. I have ordered some of those needles today. Lisa
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#792 Post by dw »

Nathan wrote:I have been doing a lot of full leathers on shoes like Edward Green and Saint Crispin. Currently I round the top edge of the sole with sandpaper and my bone tool.
However I want to know what cutting tool is used to achieve the neat concave sole edge and then the slightly convex with lip on the sole edge. If I can do that with the finisher I am using it would save a whole heap of time.
Any thoughts?
Nathan,

Sorry to be so late in replying here...I just noticed your post/question.

Photos would help but I am assuming, since you mentioned using a finisher....

Edge work on outsoles can be done entirely by hand. A rasp, and a dowel wrapped in sandpaper, will get you, size, shape and that concave edge. Heated collices (burnishing irons) will set the concave edge as well as create and set the bead at the top and bottom edge of the outsole. Of course, there's more to it than that but mostly details.

If you have, and use, a finisher, most were originally sold with a set of edge trimmers and edge irons. As an example my finisher...an old 14 foot Landis "racing model" (with three stick shifts)...has a brush section as well as a trimmer section and roughly 20 trimmer and burnishing irons of ascending sizes/widths.

The trimmer section runs very fast and will trim the edge of an outsole concave, cutting the beads top and bottom, as it goes.

The brush section has a bayonet fitting that allows the edge irons to be mounted and heated. Dye and burnishing ink is applied to the sole edge and when dry, the heated burnishing iron is run firmly across the edge thereby setting the concave edge and beads and driving the wax into the leather.

The finisher does a pretty good job on the edge of outsoles, esp. rubber outsoles, but if you really want a brilliant gleam on the edge you still have to do some hand work and polishing. I run hand irons on the edge and polish the edges with a soft cloth wrapped around my thumb. So as convenient as the finisher may be, it doesn't save all that much time.
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How does one glue Leather to natural Horn material

#793 Post by Yoram.Horowitz »

"How does one glue Leather to natural Horn material".
This is a question posted in www.crowd-whisper.com.
I could recommend a general glue (i.e. Aleene's Leather & Suede Glue; Leather Factory Tanners Bond Leathercraft Cement; Tandy Leather Eco-Flo Leather Weld 2655-01 etc).
Yet I am not sure if this is the right to glue Leather and Horn of an animal.
What would you recommend?
You can respond me or directly in www.crowd-whisper.com, as they are paying for answers (if the question is not a free trial).
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#794 Post by paul »

Seeking knowledge here.

Since I've recently finished two pairs of Western Boots with "hung linings", stitched only at the top line, I've been wondering was there a period in the history of the Cowboy boot when inverted lining seams prevailed?
I have an intuition it's connected to when stitched-in counters would have replaced pocket counters (presumably for spurs).
Was there an influence of English-made construction of the Wellington over the German Hessian boot construction once the Factory stage was begun??
I recently read that The Duke of Wellington requested something different than the Hessian boot.

Thank you for any input.
Paul
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#795 Post by das »

Paul,

In the days of the Iron Duke, boots were waxed-calf and unlined. Wellington's own Hessian style boots survive, and are on display http://blog.english-heritage.org.uk/hid ... ton-combo/ These were tall, often had flashy tassels added, and had to be worn over pantaloons. The lower, more practical boot that bears his name (could be worn under trousers) were likewise waxed calf, un-lined https://www.britishmuseum.org/research/ ... mages=true.
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#796 Post by paul »

The latter image from the British Museum seems to have a one piece front.
I have assumed it was a four-piece design. Mistaken again. That has never been implied from what I've been told.
So a "Wellington" is characterized by the side seam and shorter than a Hessian. Is that correct?
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#797 Post by paul »

Judging by that image there must be a hard counter stitched, rather than a pocket counter?
Do you know when stitched counters became the norm?
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#798 Post by dw »

If I'm not mistaken, Arthur Wellsley's (the Duke of Wellington) boots were 2 piece and made by the famous bootmaker George Hoby on St. James Street, in London.

Below is a photo of a pair of Wellington's boots purported to have been made by Hoby (maybe not the originals).
wellington's own2.jpg
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#799 Post by das »

DW,

The boots above are, however, resemble the Hessian style of the time that go over pantaloons, than what became known as "the Wellington". They appear to me to have shaped (blocked) backs as per Rees, with no ankle reduction via side seam draft characteristic of "Wellington" cut by 1830s.

Paul,

As to side seam boot heel stiffeners, in 1813 Rees only discusses whipped in I believe, but check. These were frequently repaired by stabbing when the whip-stitches rubbed through/stiffeners came loose. The ones made stabbed through (showing stitches on the exterior) across the top, and up the front of the stiffener (where they overlap the side seam) are a little later (1820s+) on un-lined whole-cut (2-piece) boots. With the advent of the 4-piece "dress" Wellingtons, there's stabbing galore (tongue to front leg, counter to rear leg creating pocket for stiffener, etc.).
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Re: Seeking knowledge or survey

#800 Post by dw »

das,

As far as I can tell, it is a two-piece, side seamed boot, however--a "Wellington" by the very definition that you, yourself imparted to me, IIRC. Lo these many years....

[Stipulating that I am not in your league with regard to history...]

From what I've read, Hesssian boots were the very thing at the time and Hoby made boots for the crown as well as all the darlings of the London social set...such as beau Brummel, etc.. So it wouldn't be unusual that the Hessian influence would persist or bleed over into Wellington's boot...or, more to the point, the boots that Hoby made for him. At least until the new style--the classic Wellington--took root and acquired its own iconography.

I've read that Wellington commissioned that first pair of "Wellingtons" directly after Waterloo. Perhaps it's all relative, but it seems to me that 1815 to 1830 is a significant span of time for the emergence of the classic Wellington as you describe it ....all the attendant variations notwithstanding.

Further to that supposition, it seems reasonable to ask whether Hoby would have created a whole new set of trees for these initial pairs when he already had a perfectly functional and well popularly accepted set. ?? I don't think I would. Although in the face of bespoke requests such as "make this next pair a little tighter through the throat, if you can", most certainly.
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