Hand Wax / Coad

[jake]

Tom,

Glad to hear about your success. I too have pieces of wax that stick to the sides of the 5 gal bucket I use. It's dedicated to my wax making projects, but the pieces usually pop right off with a little scrubbing.

I know what you mean about customers coming in at impromptu moments. Old "Murphy's Law" coming into play. Luckily, my wife lets me make my wax at night in the kitchen. The only interruptions are from the kids.

Thanks for the compliment! Yes, I did awl from the top, or vamp side. As to the marking of the vamp, the only place I have to be careful is the medial ball area. The stitching should be about half the distance between the vamp and the edge of the sole. This usually causes no problems.

Take care!

[plugnickle]

I thought that I would share that I bought a four dollar, quart sized crock pot at our local Goodwill store the other day that I cooked up a batch of hand wax in. The ingredients got very hot, but I had no scorching problems. The crock surface cleaned up thoroughly and easily with a paper towel. The cooker is dedicated to this endeavor, so my wife has no problems with me cooking in her kitchen (I took a severe toungue lashing on my first batch ), though I can actually use it anywhere that I have electricity.
Steve

[erickgeer]

I didn't think a crock-pot would be hot enough to make up the wax - does it not need to boil? How do you know if you have scorched the ingredients? The Fry-Daddy gets pretty hot - the first time I poured the molten wax into cold water, the water boiled. I have not been able to use the wax yet, but it seems to be the right consistency, and sticks to the thread.
I bought a crock-pot to warm up beef-tallow in, which seems to be a good temp.
ooh questions!

Erick

[dw]

Erick,

Someone might have a better or more technical insight into this than I do, but I never let my wax boil. I seem to remember, in fact, someone (Al?) telling me it shouldn't even smoke...although I often walk away and come back to find it smoking...so I don't think that kind of heat does it any harm. I don't know whether boiling your wax will harm it, either, but I do know that I've made many, many (all of them, in fact) sucessful batches over the years without boiling it.

Just an observation...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com

"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."

[plugnickle]

Erick,
From the information that I could find, beeswax melts at 145° F and rosin melts from 230-266° F. The lower its melting point, the lower grade that rosin is. I surmise that the mix needs to surpass the water's boiling point to liquefy, so if the water boils a little it may not be a bad thing? I don't remember mine boiling, though. Other than my crock pot being a 75 watt cooker, I couldn't find a reference to it's actual heating temperature. Evidently it heats to at least 230-266° as all of the ingredients were liquefied. I did find that different slow cookers have different wattages.

I would consider that the mix would be scorched when it smokes and turns dark? Wax has a flash point of 490-525° F, so there is a lot of room between melting and catching on fire.

Steve

[rvallee]

I see there is much discussion about waxes and mixtures here at HCC.
I agree that wax should not smoke or boil. I beleive that under such conditions the chemical make up of the particular wax will undergo change.

I would offer to share some of my wax that I stock at least 2,000 lbs at a time, but I remember DW telling me that he used to scrape my wax off my thread. (thanks alot!)

But seriously, I do carry 2 types of waxes here in bulk and would be happy to share if anyone is interested.
Rusty

[dw]

Rusty,

(somewhat tongue in cheek) If you could or would mix up a 2,000 lb. batch of real shoemaker's wax, or better yet this new recipe that Jake and I have been playing with...ie, beeswax, lanolin and pine rosin, and would wax your Teklon with that...well, I'd be happy to leave on there.

But you know from the discussions that the paraffin wax just won't do what we need it to do--at least not in this particular application. But, hey, no problem...you've been very generous and accommodating just making up rolls of unwaxed Teklon for us. No one else that I've dealt with would go to that kind of trouble. So if I haven't said it before...

Thanks!

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com

"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."

[marc]

Just as an amusement - I'm currently trying to get pictures taken for my book, and since I'm going to have to redo this one, I thought I'd share this one.

3125.jpg

I should thank Al for supplying most of the various sorts of pitch.

You may notice that the different sorts of pitch all have different consistancies.

Marc

[das]

Marc,

Pretty cool shot.

BTW, the most recent pitch source I posted from Sweden, their stuff is so soft it won't look like a pile of broken crumbs--more like a blob of roofing tar. Was just referred to a new source [in Germany?] for genuine Burgundy pitch, which I haven't tried yet:

Kremar [or Kramar, or Kramer] Pigments.

They're supposed to sell all sorts of wonderful exotic resins, waxes, etc. They've got genuine Venice turpentine.

[marc]

Most of the powdery stuff didn't look that way when you sent it But it does powder up differently.

As it is, I'm having a problem with my focal length and trying to get all of it in one shot. I may just have to go for something smaller, and do several shots.

Marc

[dai]

Good to see what those things look like Marc. Thanks.

I don't remember if I posted this before, a supplier of smellies of all sorts, including various tars and pitches, in Liverpool UK. I have not bought anything from them since I only need teaspoonfulls of things, but it may interest someone.

http://www.livergrease.co.uk/index.htm

[das]

Just got handed this possibility--Kremer Pigments.

http://www.kremer-pigmente.de/englisch/chemic01.htm#naturalresins

Scroll down to colophony [the rosin stipulated by Garsault in 1767 for wax, also for hardening jack boots]

Also Burgundy pitch.

I'll be ordering samples.

[Lisa Cresson]

Dear Marc,
That a rather "Harry Potter-like" collection of mysterious ingredients. . . could you post the most useful of those reciepes?

And I wondered, does your book have a publisher or have you gotten your own ISBN ?

Our weather tomorrow is due to be 105-degrees in the shade, so I figure the temperature on the roof should be perfect for cooking wax in New York. Jim Bowman gave me a bunch of bricks of caranuba which he was using on his lasts. Maybe it could be used in bootmaking?

Regards,
Lisa

[marc]

It's not really a list of ingredients. It's just a picture of -some- of the sorts of things that are used in different kinds of wax.

Marc

[Lisa Cresson]

DA Saguto -- I didn't realize it but the Kremer link you posted is the artist pigment store here in the Village, a neighborhood in NYC so anyone who needs me to look at something -- let me know.

Lisa
lcresson@gmail.com

[Craig Corvin]

For lack of a better way to ask, what is the overall goal of the coad? Of the different ingredients used, what attributes do they contribute to the whole?

Seems the most common three are:

Resin
Beeswax
Paraffin Wax

True?

Thanks,
Craig Corvin

[das]

Craig,

I'm sure you'll get plenty of opinions on this, but traditionally/historically the pine rosin is the substance deposited, the pine pitch is the binding agent that sticks it to the thread, and a little tallow or oil is to temper the brittleness of the mixture according to the weather/season, so it's not too brittle in the cold and won't flake off the thread.

Beeswax is a successful additive [instead of tallow or oil], if used sparingly, but beeswax like paraffin-wax is a lubricant, and shoemakers' wax, or "coad' is not a lubricant. I'd avoid paraffin-wax. When properly mixed and used, it leaves the thread dry, but feeling like tacky, not-quite-dry varnish if handled. As you sew or stitch, the friction warms the wax enough to pull it through, if you don't hesitate. Otherwise it cements itself in the hole. IOW, it's got more adhesive qualities than lubricating. This stickiness is critical, too, to hold the bristles on the twisted taws at each end. Hope that helps.

[dw]

FWIW, I've been told that pitch is anti-bacterial. Since linen is an organic fiber the pitch might have a strong anti-rot action. Of course that could very well be incidental as bacteria and microbes, etc. (and any possible counter-measures), weren't really understood til the time of van Leeuwenhoek--1700's. Coad goes back to the 13th century.

[I'm prepared to be shot down so have at anyone who knows better or can expand on this thesis.]

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[das]

DW,

I've never read that shoemakers understood the anti-microbial qualities of pine pitch, however they knew the wax preserved the thread and made it last longer than no wax, or "bad" wax. Rees devotes a lot of time and ink to the importance of proper wax, and I tell folks all the time it's the single most important ingredient in any boot or shoe. Without good wax the "best" thread will slip loose between stitches, rot, etc., allowing even the "best" of leathers to grin, come loose, seams to blow-out, etc. The quality/durability of the boot or shoe rides entirely on that humble ball of sticky wax. I give my apprentices 3 years, out of a 6-7 year, 5-day/week apprenticeship, just to get their wax right.

This got me thinking...."Thermowax", I think Frank told us once, was based on coal tar or bitumen, rather than pine-pitch. The various industrial uses of coal tar were heavily promoted from the mid-1800s onward, like in the dye industry, etc. I wonder if coal tar was just a cheap substitute for pine pitch? Also, in the West End trade, which used a lot of "Thermowax" 20thc., how it compared in durability?

Today, with folks using nylon and other synthetic threads for hand-sewing, it's probably moot. And seeing that even what hemp thread we can get is so short in the staple anymore that not even Super Glue would make it as strong as the old stuff, making side-by-side comparisons impossible.

[dw]

Al,

I'm confident I understand the purpose and preferred characteristics of a good hand wax, but I'd have to say that, making my own, it's kind of hit or miss.

Oh sure, it all *works*...but I've seldom hit on that elusive "perfect" batch that is not too soft, not too hard, doesn't flake off the thread if it sits for a day, or two and is properly tacky. Sometimes I have to fool with it and reconstitute it over and over again.

My best results seem to come when I mix my own recipe with one of the last 20 or so blocks of Vesta Pech that I got after they folded. [Preferably in a mix ratio of one part DW's to, oh...3000 parts Vest Pech. ] Although some suspect that Vesta Pech was made with coal tar, Ralph Burkhardt(?), from Goetz, put the question directly to the Vesta Pech people at my behest some years ago and was told that there was **no** petroleum products in Vesta Pech.

But as you mentioned, using dacron threads, wax is probably not near as critical as it once was. But I still like a properly "grippy" wax. I think that's even more important with the synthetic threads since they all tend to slip a little if not securely locked in some fashion. Wax is the bigger part of that equation in my book.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[ted]

I am a supplier of products used by bagpipe makers, as well as leather bag and reed-making materials. I have been using Holt's black handwax for a long time, but it is no longer available. I will have to make my own. I was glad to scan the archives and found a lot of useful info. I always remelted the too-brittle wax and added a little olive oil to make it more workable. I do not like the Thermowax as well. I was wondering if anyone has come up with a reliable source for pine pitch? Burgundy pitch is often a product reconstituted from pine rosin and oil, often petroleum based. As turpentine is not extracted by the old methods, pitch is hard to come by.
I used to make waxed-ends with #10 shoe thread (flax), but am now using hemp of about the same weight, as it is less liable to rot when wetted. All my leather-working products and techniques come from shoe and harness maker's knowlege, which I have gleaned over the years. I get my 10/1 flax shoe thread from Sweden. It is dry-spun and nobby, like the old Barbour's. I also use a 20/1 weight in flax and the same in hemp. I have good sources for bee's wax and sealing wax, and supply a few makers who find the old products and methods still yielding superior results.

Ted Anderson
bigsurtapes@sbcglobal.net

[j1a2g3]

Just made my 1st batch of handwax.

2 part pine pitch
2 part pine rosin
1 part bees wax
couple of drops olive oil

It's a beautiful light olive color probably do to the oil I used. It is sticky!!!

I think my little sauce pan has seen it's last day as far as food is concerned. Tomorrow we will see if it holds a stitch.

Thanks for all the info on this site, Joel

[j1a2g3]

I was just wondering what the texture of the hand wax is suppose to be after it cools down. Is it suppose to be a firm ball or is it suppose to be more like playdough? Mine is a firm ball.
Also, it felt a lot sticker when I first made it. It has some tack to it but it isn't leaving any trace or residue on my fingers when I pick it up. Thanks is advance, Joel

[dw]

Joel,

Sounds like it's just about perfect. When you rub your coad on the linen, it will heat up and get very sticky again...but only until it cools again.

When you inseam, pulling the thread through the hole in the insole and it rubbing against the leather and itself, will heat the wax up again. By the time you have completed the stitch, the thread will have cooled yet again and stuck to itself...that's the whole reason for the stickiness--to make a "lock."

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[j1a2g3]

DW

Is the Coad suppose to be slightly tacky after it has cooled down? I think my handwax is a bit to soft. The mono keeps slipping when I was inseaming. Do I add more rosin to correct this problem? Thanks is advance, Joel