The Crispin Colloquy

And to butt my nose in here for a second, The HCC and its Forum cannot become an Epinions/Angie's List/Consumers' Guide for comparing boot and shoe courses taught for-profit, especially since many of those individuals that might get discussed (shredded, liabled, praised or promoted) are offered by HCC members. It's better to just avoid altogether. Yes we've winked at a few, Lisa gave examples, but it is up to us to lead by example here and set the professional tone. Casual posters or Forumites are not expected to be conversant with the vagaries of the non-profit educational foundation world--this is why we try to have a cadre on the guild board (that administers this site, including "Admin"], to advise, guide, and whisper in an ear occasionally. We know whereof we are speaking--trust us.

If we post a comprehensive list of teaching resources around the world, without any editorializing or endorsement of one over any other, as training opportunities to promote our trade to keep it from dying out that's fine. If we start oohing and aahing over one teacher/course, are sharing awful experiences had with others, we are moving into dangerous territory, best avoided for the greater good on the guild. Word travels fast. If you "loved" or "hated" a course or teacher, please keep it in PM, not out here in the public Forum.

Example: when somebody contacts me at the museum to know where to buy/find a certain commercial product or service, professional ethics forbid me to recommend, "my great buddy Bill!". I have to try and offer three options: "Old Weird Harold", "Bubba Gump" and "Bill". If it's where to buy UK pit-tanned oak-bark sole leather, J. & F. J. Bakers is the last tannery going, so no problem.

Dear HCC.....I am seeking either a mentor and/or apprenticeship......I reside in the Chester County, PA area which places me in commuting distances of Baltimore, Philadelphia, Harrisburg, NJ, and Wilmington DE. I recently completed a 1 month certification program in shoe making, and have over 25+yrs of work experience in textiles/clothing industry...specifically in product development and quality assurance. Appreciate any and all guidance or referrals in the request. Regards

mlharris wrote:Dear HCC.....I am seeking either a mentor and/or apprenticeship......I reside in the Chester County, PA area which places me in commuting distances of Baltimore, Philadelphia, Harrisburg, NJ, and Wilmington DE. I recently completed a 1 month certification program in shoe making, and have over 25+yrs of work experience in textiles/clothing industry...specifically in product development and quality assurance. Appreciate any and all guidance or referrals in the request. Regards

Don't know of any apprenticeships but I'm curious where you received a 1 month certification in shoemaking? I'm also a 30 year "garmento".
Regards,

Georgene
(this is my first attempt at posting under the new forum server--hope this works!) And first attempt at imoticon!

1947redhed wrote:

mlharris wrote:Dear HCC.....I am seeking either a mentor and/or apprenticeship......I reside in the Chester County, PA area which places me in commuting distances of Baltimore, Philadelphia, Harrisburg, NJ, and Wilmington DE. I recently completed a 1 month certification program in shoe making, and have over 25+yrs of work experience in textiles/clothing industry...specifically in product development and quality assurance. Appreciate any and all guidance or referrals in the request. Regards

Don't know of any apprenticeships but I'm curious where you received a 1 month certification in shoemaking? I'm also a 30 year "garmento".images/smilies/thumb.gif
Regards,

Georgene
(this is my first attempt at posting under the new forum server--hope this works!) And first attempt at imoticon!

Smilie guy didn't work--need some instructions DW

The intent with my original post was to hopefully obtain some potential leads for an apprenticeship. Since this is my first endeavor with this forum, I kept my request generic. I will provide the detail of training, experience and education, when there is a potential mentor. Thank you for the interest though

1947redhed wrote: Smilie guy didn't work--need some instructions DW

Just click on the emoticon. It will be inserted...

:old&wise:

mlharris wrote:The intent with my original post was to hopefully obtain some potential leads for an apprenticeship. Since this is my first endeavor with this forum, I kept my request generic. I will provide the detail of training, experience and education, when there is a potential mentor. Thank you for the interest though

Look here:

viewtopic.php?p=39296#p39296

mlharris,
Its kind of weird that your asking a question about learning but then are all secretive about your own experiences,
Just saying...

Courtney

I'm looking for a mentor or fellow shoemaker in the St. Louis Mo area. I'm a beginner. I've made one pair of leather shoes and a number of sewn shoes.
Thanks,
Judy

I am looking for shoe making and general leatherwork mentors/apprenticeships in the Twin Cities (MN) area (where I just moved). I have some experience making bark tan leather (from scratch), hand sewing, and have some older sewing machines (31-15 and 29K). I am looking to become a custom shoemaker and general leatherworker using the leather that I make. Learning on my own, and with books, is only getting me so far...

Here is examples of my leather: https://www.etsy.com/shop/OldTreeLeather

Horween it's not, but I think it's pretty good stuff considering I made it myself.

Thanks, Dennis

Hello:

I would like to eventually make my living making shoes. Ideally, bespoke, the most traditional way.

I fully realise I will have to study with a master or experienced professional. I have not yet, mostly due to being somewhat "stuck" in Spain, and having no money. I am a believer in the value of face to face contact and instruction, the old fashioned way. I do understand that besides physically being shown techniques, something intangible is lost without it.
I feel somewhat apologetic for the fact that I have already started learning on my own, whatever I can, poring over the forum, mostly, from books and videos, and gathering tools. I have a great respect for the incredible amount of tradition and skills that most people these days can't even conceive of. I do have some understanding of how incredibly much work and learning it will take, and am not foreign to learning things that require this of me.

It is my understanding that one must start with a course. But after that, how many courses would be necessary before a person could be apprenticed in a working shop? Is this actually what happens? The only courses that I have come across, that seem to go farther from a one week basic course are those of Marcel in Hungary.
Would anyone ever take me on if I had learned a lot (I know, very vague) on my own?

In Spain where I am, shoemaking is highly industrialised and though there is still "made to measure", there seems to be very little truly bespoke shoemaking, of the quality seen in other countries (only one guy in Barcelona). On a Spanish forum, for example, there are recipes for thread wax but making a waxed end seems never to have been done here, or it has been lost. Would it be worth it to at least try to learn fitting the feet, with someone here? Or making shoes that are glued (does not appeal to me, I can already do that myself, just not fit them well). Courses here are geared towards designers for factories, requiring them to go through the motions of making a shoe.

Thanks kindly for any advice,

Ana Kim

Just a thought from someone who has studied other things: I have spent 15 years of my life learning to play classical piano to a technical level that I can (could, years ago) adequately perform pieces of a very high level of difficulty, such as what a concert pianist would do. However, I would have had to undergo a lot more training to actually become competent as a concert pianist. I was nowhere near that, even though I had adquate technique to tackle the same things.

There is no way I could have done this without an hour a week sitting beside a teacher, for 15 years (plus daily practice alone).
Anyone who has a will, can go to various types of instruments and learn on their own, how to pick out a melody, and probably to accompany it with appropriate chords. Also, to improvise. But not to play classical music of the highest technical level.

I believe that a craft such as shoemaking is quite analogous. It also involves skilled work with one's hands, and there are many types of shoes involving different levels of technique. They are not considered "better" than each other. Some people prefer rock music with a few chords (that often a guy with great passion, has taught himself), or mocassins. Sometimes I prefer these. These things are equally important, and serve specific purposes, as classical music or handmade oxfords/cowboy boots. But it would be silly to confuse the types of expertise necessary.

Having said this, I have jumped in and plan to learn as much as I possibly can without a teacher, until I can manage to relocate myself to one. Simply because it is some sort of creative imperative coming from within myself, and I love figuring things out - in the same spirit as many of you make your own tools. I do realise, though, that I will not be able to pass myself off as a quality shoemaker or be hired by Lord's of London (lol), until I train with someone. (I am already going to try to pass myself off as a hack to friends that are daring enough). And I am aware that there are 17 pages on this forum dedicated to, what was it - types of thread and winding it, or making waxed ends...? So I hope you will all forgive my blundering ahead, and know in what spirit I do it, and that I respect and appreciate all the incredible knowledge here and your skills and willingnes to share them.

Ana:

Wow, you have a lot of enthusiasm, some great perspective, and, I think, the proper attitude about what you are pursuing.

That said, a few comments. First, it is pretty darned hard to make a living as a bespoke shoemaker -- the labor is challenging, customers relatively few, and the learning curve is long. So, be aware of what, from an economic perspective, you are looking at. I also think that, in the future, the relative price of handmade shoes will continue to grow much faster than inflation (for reasons I won't go into, but which relies the Baumol effect), so the market for such shoes may continue to shrink. At a minimum, bespoke shoes will be increasingly a luxury good.

Second, I think that in many/most geographies, the shoemaking trade is in fact divided into sub-specialties -- i.e. last making, pattern making, closing, and 'making.' Certainly this is the case in the UK. As such, trying to become a one-person purveyor is a challenge -- not impossible, certainly, but an additional challenge. There are some well-known makers who seem like they may be able to do everything -- Anthony Delos (now at Berluti) and Koji Suzuki come to mind. So, I think you want to think about how you plan to build a business, what you will try master by yourself and what you might outsource, sub-contract, or employ others to do.

In terms of actual learning, it seems like there aren't too many folks out there training others. That said, Lobb in London do take on apprentices; I know that Foster & Sons has also taken on the occasional apprentice, and perhaps the other UK bespoke firms would do so. You might try to contact Kaspar (see the recent thread on 64 stitches to the inch here: viewtopic.php?p=32256#p32256), who apprenticed at Lobb to learn more about the UK apprenticeship situation, though I'm not sure Kaspar is still frequenting this site.

In France, there are a few bespoke firms: Lobb Paris, Berluti, Dimitri Gomez at Crockett & Jones Paris, and Pierre Corthay. A number of these French makers originally learned at Lobb Paris.

In Italy, there are several as well: Stefano Bemer (though the proprietor died last year, the company remains in business), Enzo Bonafe, Skarpe Scarpe su Misura (Florence), Hidetaka Fukuya/'Il Micio' (Florence), Riccardo Bestetti, Silvano Lattanzi, Kiton (big RTW clothing business, but do handmade shoes after acquiring a local Neapolitan shoemaker), Paolo Scafora (maybe?), Messina (Milan), Roberto Ugolini (Florence). Here is a pretty good list of shoemakers, some of them bespoke: http://www.styleforum.net/t/12201/compr ... -end-shoes

In addition to Marcel Mrsan (who is currently living in the USA), in England Carreducker run classes.

I would suggest reaching out to some of the folks mentioned above, and finding out what they have to say.

Good luck, and let us know what you learn.

Lance

Lance,

Thank you so much for your informative and thoughtful reply.
Perhaps I will discover along the way that making truly bespoke shoes isn't my thing or isn't feasible economically, but for now it is my goal.
It is good to hear a little reality - I have been ignoring reality because I think anyone sane would not start to do this if they thought about it.
Thank you for your advice about contacting the various shoemakers. I will do that.

I know that in the UK everything is specialised, but have read in Laszlo Vass's book that in Eastern Europe some places seem to do everything except make lasts. At present I am trying out everything except tanning (and almost did a bit of that too, when I went trying to find boar bristles in the mountains near me!). Definitely, lasting the shoes is the fun part.

This might interest you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compagnons ... _de_France

I have a friend who was trained as a professional baker by that group and he is getting me more information on their shoemaking "program".

Cheers,
Cody

Cody,

I don't see shoemaker listed among the professions that they mentor / offer.

The Wiki article mentions cobbler as a trade but if you click on the link (for cobbler) it brings you to the shoemaking article. My baker friend says that they have shoemaking. I will let you all know what more he tells me.

Cody

Hello Everyone,
I am new to this forum, but I would like to know if anyone knows of apprenticeships/internships that might be hiring anywhere for people who are new to this but very interested in getting started in this field, I have a background in costuming and a little millinery but I really want to learn this trade. Thank you.
Emily

Emily:

Welcome. Can you tell us where you are located?

Thank you,
Lance

I am currently located in Alabama, but I can be flexible on location

Ehaggerty wrote:I am currently located in Alabama, but I can be flexible on location

Actually I feel I should explain more clearly, I am currently in grad school for costume design/construction and I would ideally like a position for the summer that I can begin to learn this trade and hopefully continue on with it in my studies/lifetime

Hello everyone,

I'm Francis, from the Philippines, and it's great to be here.

I'm new and truly appreciating the staggering amount of information and expertise here. This is an incredible resource and I can't thank all the people here enough.

Recent natural events in my homeland have made rebuilding a career somewhat of a necessity, and since I've always been in love with shoemaking and crafts (and craftsmanship in general) I'm looking an apprenticeship, either short term or long term, and I'm willing to go anywhere in the world for it.

I've actually started trying to make shoes on my own so I'm attaching some pictures of some of my work (I'm still on my very first pair, and making a lot of mistakes as I go along). The upper was pre-made, but nothing else was (except for the last and the tools, I suppose).

I'm willing to spend as much time in the workshop as needed, and work on anything that needs doing. I am willing to learn more than what I am taught, and while I can't promise to be the fastest student in the world, I assure you that I will always work my hardest and give 110% on all that I do.

Also, I have about a decade of website design, creation, and administration among other IT-related things under my belt, and if any shoemakers out there are interested, I'm willing to make/upgrade/renovate a website for them (and teach them how to use it) according to their specifications in exchange for being able to learn at their feet for a time (like maybe a workshop/bootcamp of some sort?) Of course, I'm also willing to go and pay for short-term courses or workshops (it's just that most seem to have either been fully booked already, or otherwise prohibitively expensive for a person living in a 3rd world country).

While English is not my native tongue, I feel like I have a good grasp of it and I am familiar with most terms and processes related to shoemaking (by hand, anyway). So I'm hoping that communication barriers won't be an issue at least for English. If my would-be mentor prefers to use another language (Italian/German/Japanese/anything else) then I am willing to learn that as well. In the end, I am ultimately in the debt of my would-mentor and am willing to learn it their way, not mine.

Any assistance is appreciated even if you can't take on new apprentices or students - like contact details of other makers who may be able to take on a student, or showing this post to them, or anything else - is a great help and I am grateful.

Thank you for your time,
Francis

jesselee wrote:All,
I am looking for a Civil War reenactor (Confederate preferred) who wants to learn the old Trade. If anyone knows of someone contact me by email.

Cheers,
JesseLee

Jesse,

I realize this is really old post but it sparked my interest. I sent you a message with info on my background through your YouTube channel. BTW - the ANV shoes looked great! It'd be great to connect. Let me know the best way.

Thanks,
Chris

I'm sure this isn't the correct place to post this but its the closest I could figure.

I will be traveling to Ecuador next week and staying for 3 months. There are many bespoke shoemakers down there and it is actually where I was originally introduced to handmade shoemaking. While down there, I hope to get some uppers made and perhaps, once my Spanish is better, get a short apprenticeship.

Therefore, to help me in this endeavor, I was wondering if any one knows some Spanish shoemaking terms? Specifically:

Upper

Last (Is it hormas?)

Awl

Lining

Brougeing

Insole shoulder

Outsole bends

Shank

Rubber Heel Taps



Any help would be great!

Thanks a lot,

Cody

[center]Help Wanted[/center]

From Mr. Edward Joyner, the Head of Human Resources at Colonial Williamsburg, comes a great opportunity for someone wanting to learn about early shoemaking or break into the Trade. A 10 week internship:

Click on page to magnify...a downloadable, printable pdf version is included at bottom of this post