Schools

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marcell

Re: Schools

#26 Post by marcell » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:46 am

Any interest?

relferink

Re: Schools

#27 Post by relferink » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:47 pm

Marcell,

I moved your posts to a more appropriate topic.

I think there will be interest if we can get a little more information. Is it a beginner course or more intermediate? What skill level is expected from participants? How big is the group going to be, how many days is the course? Is it a three part course in Sweden, Hungary and the US and how is it broken down? Can one follow only one or two parts?

It sounds like a great opportunity to learn from very skilled makers. Thanks for offering such a course.

Rob

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Re: Schools

#28 Post by romango » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:48 pm

I'm very interested in a USA class.

marcell

Re: Schools

#29 Post by marcell » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:12 am

I can tell you more details about the US class in a few days (maybe weeks), but most probably it will be held in 2009, April.

Level? You should be higher than a beginner level, but even for a beginner it will be interesting.

kenkähahmo

Re: Schools

#30 Post by kenkähahmo » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:30 am

Hi Marcell,

I am also very interested in the course, but need definitely more information - exact time for starters?

Hanna

marcell

Re: Schools

#31 Post by marcell » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:31 pm

As I know Janne Melkersson will rejoin to the forum soon. He can give more details about the course, as he is the host of it.

I can just make the shoe, maybe answer the questions, but I am not the organizer. We try to organize it to the very end of July, 3 days.

relferink

Re: Schools

#32 Post by relferink » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:05 pm

All,

The promotion of any activity for personal gain on the Crispin Colloquy can be seen as the Guild "aiding and abetting" in a for profit operation. The laws governing the not for profit HCC specifically prohibit this.
As a moderator I ask all member that are interested in the above mentioned offers to only respond to the posting party by private email.

Rob

relferink

Re: Schools

#33 Post by relferink » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:58 pm

Michael,

I'm intrigued by the idea of using the internet and video as an apprenticeship tool. I assume you are not local to your teacher. How does that work? Do you watch your teacher demonstrate a technique on video, than do it yourself and send in the work for evaluation?
I know there more than just a few readers here on the forum that have an interest in preserving their skills and would like to pass it on to others. A traditional apprenticeship is often not possible and a lack of alternatives means that not enough knowledge of the gentle craft is preserved.
This great forum does a respectable job of discussing materials, techniques, even occasionally guiding someone new into the craft but it falls short in being an comprehensive educational tool.
Any information you can give on this apprenticeship is very welcome and highly appreciated.

I hope you'll find the Colloquy a useful source of information and look forward to seeing you here frequently.

Rob

michaelbeeman

Re: Schools

#34 Post by michaelbeeman » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:49 pm

Rob,
First, thanks for the welcome.
I purchased a 5hr comprehensive DVD set on how to make a pair of custom knee high moccasins, from a boot maker up in Oregon. He put the videos together himself, but the production is really quite good. He explains all of the techniques he uses, from pattern making to finishing the sole. The gentleman also offers e-mail and phone support and consultation. I will send in pictures for evaluation and critique.
It isn't an apprenticeship as such, but it is perhaps as close as I might get, at least for now.
I am more than happy to answer any questions I can. If anyone were interested, they could contact me via e-mail and I would share the gentleman's info.

relferink

Re: Schools

#35 Post by relferink » Thu May 01, 2008 6:53 pm

Michael,

Thanks for that info. It sounds like a good package, DVD's to study and backup support via phone and email. I'm looking forward to see how you do with it.

Rob

luckyduck

Re: Schools

#36 Post by luckyduck » Sat May 03, 2008 3:09 pm

Rob and Michael.

I like the internet idea, too. Taking a couple week class is too much info too fast for me, plus you are not using your own equipment. I would love to find someone to do what Rob is talking about of putting together a package of video's/books and then doing each step and sending the results to the teacher. Especially a more hand made type shoe/boot using minimal equipment.

It may cost a lot of postage, but it would have to be less than traveling and paying tuition to a class.

This method would also probably be easier on the teacher as the contact time would be in smaller increments.

If anyone is interested in working something like this out, I would love to help. I have 15 years experience in writing work instructions with and without video for making guitars, high tech electronics, heart implants, and a few other odds and ends. Oh yeah, and a couple engineering degrees, too.

Michael, was that the Sodhoppers video package by any chance?

Paul

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Re: Schools

#37 Post by artzend » Sat May 03, 2008 3:34 pm

Paul

I would possibly be interested in the idea. I already have the book, what do you reckon is needed?

Only problem I see is that I live too far away but I guess photos and skype on the internet should be able to solve most problems there.

Tim

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Re: Schools

#38 Post by dw » Sat May 03, 2008 5:22 pm

Paul,

I used to have one of my books on the Internet for continuous access. From that experience I came to the conclusion that there are critical and complicating factors that limit the usefulness of such an approach...access to tools and or equipment, for one thing. And maybe that's not something the teacher should concern himself with, I don't know. If the student doesn't have space or equipment or doesn't want to invest...maybe is unsure of what to buy, etc., then that's his lookout, I guess.

On a video of moccasin-making you might not need anything but a punch and or a knife. But with shoes and boots you need lasts and all kinds of specialized tools and even some machinery (ie. a sewing machine, splitter, etc.). And with western boots ...at least the way we all do it and teach it (those of us who do teach)...some "heavy" equipment is needed.

I am not putting down the idea but I think there is a very real danger of shorting a student and dumbing down a curriculum. There are any number of instructional videos and manuals out there that skim over important material...just for lack of the ability to closely monitor the student's progress, if nothing else...and even when followed rigorously leave the student with something well short of a professional quality job much less an in-depth and professional level understanding.

Often that might be enough to satisfy curiousity and/or indicate that there is a wealth of information and a further level of commitment required, but I often feel that even for rank beginners (and we all start somewhere) iif they are truly committed to this path it is a waste of time...well, maybe not a waste of time but a false start and a path that often has to be retraced.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

luckyduck

Re: Schools

#39 Post by luckyduck » Sun May 04, 2008 5:34 am

DW,

1. I believe the mocs we were talking about are like http://www.sodhoppers.com/ Much more than a punch and knife to make, unless you have near infinite patience with needle and thread.

2 My vision of the ideal would be a week or two class taught to a book/video that the student could then use as a reference while equipping thier own shop and the teacher would give feedback on the product as the student makes it. That way the class would put you on the same wavelength. The book or video would be a great reference. The student would also get feedback on how they are progressing to assure they are not mis-interpreting the material.

3. Requiring heavy equipment to make boots. Does this mean my dream of building pro quality western boots using a treadle sewing machine, human powered machines, hand tools, and non toxic glues is not a possibility? That is truly where I would like to go, then maybe in 10 or 15 years teach it to others after getting a good understanding.


Paul

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Re: Schools

#40 Post by dearbone » Sun May 04, 2008 8:32 am

I have been following your discussion about schools with some interest,i looked up the site mentioned above and at paul's sanddles and what i noticed missing is the Last,Paul Harnden and i started shoemaking without lasts,they are different class of footwear alltogather and have their place and time.

Boot and shoemaking using the last is indeed requires the student to be with the teacher,preferably sitting cross the bench from him/her and serve them while learning from them.

From the free hand boot/shoemaking to building them on last is a long way to go, I tend to agree with DW on this one.
Nasser

chuck_deats

Re: Schools

#41 Post by chuck_deats » Sun May 04, 2008 8:42 am

Paul,

A very decent pair of two piece western boots can be made completely by hand. The only extra hand stitching required is the counter to the back lining and around the tops and pulls. Many do side seams by hand because they think it is better, inseam by hand is normal, and look at the fine hand outsole stitching on the forum. A treadle sewing machine would allow four piece boots and top stitching. Rabbitskin (starch) glue would work, just not as easy as solvent adhesives. A 5 in 1 makes heavy skiving and cutting sole leather easier.

Not saying it is commercially viable but go for it!

Chuck

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Re: Schools

#42 Post by kadwart » Sun May 04, 2008 11:23 am

Michael, Rob, Paul, Nasser, DW and Chuck:

The west coast wanna be moc maker feels the need to respond.

1. Michael: let me know how that video goes as I was thinking of getting it. You can PM me and don't get put off.

2. Paul and Rob: if anyone is interested in trying to work out something educational, I will throw in part of my variegated past and offer up what small contribution my 17 years of working sporadically with distance education students(everything from print to WEB CT)and doctoral studies in education can make.

Let me tell you, I also have great potential as a guinea pig...being a complete ignoramus and all that, not to mention being a complete klutz and machinophobe.

3. DW, while I can see your point I disagree with it. If people all have to start somewhere and if that somewhere is at a basic level, then there's nothing wrong with giving people the basics.

I think it would be difficult for most people do do a bang-up "professional" job when they first start because they haven't had sufficient time to get acquainted with what they do.

It's not that I disagree with professional standards, whatever they might be, but you appear to be saying that unless you are willing to engage in an act of quasi religious devotion to the "art" AND invest a thwack load of hard earned pennies you ain't never gonna get anywhere.

But part of what I get from that - and it's just an impression to please don't take this badly - is that the problem in the first place is it's that people want to make "just moccasins." And not bespoke shoes. Or full wellingtons.

In other words I FEEL as though you are judging people somewhat based on what they want to make, as though making an really well done, well fitted, aesthetically pleasing moc is of somehow lesser value becaue it's a moc. And I don't think you really want to say that.

Of course, there's also a lot more that can be done with distance learning formats these days. And yes it's not the same as sitting down with someone for an extensive period of time but not all of us have that luxury. And how many of you out there who do have the skills actually have the time to teach on more than a sporadic basis?

I am thinking as I sit here and reflect on some things that might apply to both moc making and shoe making, then basics like sharpening (DW, you wrote on that one), skiving, stitching and sewing, measuring the foot, patterning accurately, decorative techniques like stitchwork, overlay, inlay, tooling - surely those are some COMMON basics?
(those are just off the top of my head).

And Nasser, have you checked out the sites where the mocs are made over lasts? There are some. The construction method would be moc style of course. The names that come to mind off the top of my head for that are Carl Dyer and Arrow Moccasins. But there are a number of them out there and I think I have the link for another you might find interesting buried somewhere in my favourites list. I will forward it to you when I find it and you can let me - or the forum - know what you think.

Could you use making mocs over lasts as a way to transition to shoe making over lasts Just a thought... Or are the techniques so competely different they are a different discipline.

In other words, I want to ask: what is it that makes you think moc making is so substantially different and why? and what commonalities between moc making and shoe making might people see that could lead to at least defining some core basic skills and knowledge, from which one could move rationally and progressively forward?

Apologies for the burbling,
Sue

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Re: Schools

#43 Post by dearbone » Sun May 04, 2008 1:11 pm

Susan,
Nice of you to join us from beautiful British columbia, and no looking down at moccasin on my part,and the rest of the folks can speak for themselves,but lets first distinguish between the north Americam native moccasin and the new comers adaption of it,which includes adding the sole and making them out of more than one peice leather. Moccasin is the Algonkian word for footwear, one peice, and yes i know of the work of the best moccasins built on last by Gendron penetang,here in Ontario,1835 known as the Shoepack,Like the larrigan and wannigan, is one of the white man adaptation of the North American footwear and don't forget the loafer is a moccasin with soles.
If you can make moccasin on last,you surely can make shoes on last.
regards Nasser

(Message edited by dearbone on May 04, 2008)

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Re: Schools

#44 Post by large_shoemaker_at_large » Sun May 04, 2008 1:34 pm

Hi All
Just got to throw my two cents Canadian.
I have taught shoe repair, wrote the local collages shoe repair course in the Compentency Based Education Format. Taught the quick shoe course at Muincie, Indiana for 2 years.
Working with people from diverse backgrounds from none to some to alot, and the ability to think laterally shows really quick.

An old fellow here made lasted mocassins all hand sewen. beautiful work but to small a market for him to survive. I made my fist unlasted shoe for that Tabis project i'm working on and lets not forget the tradional shoe in North America was till 300 years ago all a variation on a mocassin.
I was fortunate enought to see the Bata shoe Museum in Toronto. If you ever get a change It is a must see. anyway while I was there there was an Exibition of Plains Indian footwear from Mexico area to the north Cree and Dene Near the Northwest Territory border in Canada. Facinating styles and variations as to local material and whether for work or ceremoney.
And It was traditionally done by the women.

I will never fault/discourage any pursuit at education, as I have had to scramble to get much education in the shoemaking field. And I payed for It over a long time. A lot of self education also comes in and this forum is also one of the best info exchange around.

If anyone wants to come and work with me for a day or more my shop is always open. Plus it's lake front, fishing, bird watching, quiet, clean air. AHHHH
So Mike go for it keep us posted and if your ever up here drop in.
Sue nice to see another Canuck on the site. You a shoemaker?
Regards

relferink

Re: Schools

#45 Post by relferink » Sun May 04, 2008 6:57 pm

All,

Thanks for the passionate responses. My interest in this is not to break into a discussion if a moccasin is complex enough to make compared to other footwear. A good shoemaker should know how to make them as well as boots, pumps and mens wear, even if one chooses to specialize in a single area. I admire all that teach, wrote books, made movies, published and contributed to the Colloquy for their effort. I'm not trying to minimize that by suggesting that a more comprehensive educational package would be useful to keep the gentle craft from heading to extinction.

Having been subjected to an apprenticeship myself I have a very good understanding of how valuable it is to have hands on training. It's hard for me to see how it can be done long distance. It's so much easier to spot something that happens across the bench in stead of a land far, far away, not under the watchful eye of the master. With necessity being the mother of all inventions I do want to explore unconventional ways that go beyond books as they often fall short of demonstrating techniques. Video and web conference tools may help fill that void. Maybe it's not enough but it seems worth exploring.

As part of my education I have been taught to make shoes by hand. The only machine used was a sewing machine and some consider that optional. As it has been stated on this forum it the past, machines are a great help but should not be a substitute for learning a skill! With a knife, hammer, rasp, some scraping glass and a couple pieces of sand paper one can come a long way into making a pair of shoes.

Just brainstorming on this I think it is more important to teach techniques, not so much making a certain type of shoe. With a modular setup anyone can take part in the areas of interest such as patterns, hand sewing, cement construction, upper assembly, leather tooling etc. etc. just to throw some things out there.
Having a handful of techniques down one can make a relative simple pair, can be any construction, any style. Won't be perfect as only practice will improve one's techniques but enough to catch the shoemaking bug. Maybe it's desirable to have a short face to face course for a week or two, maybe it's not needed. I don't have an answer to that, nor do I know what potential students desire.
Part of getting people started is holding their hand in getting the right materials, maybe someone will be interested in selling packets put together specifically for each modular course segment. Can't be that hard for most of us who buy the materials and tools regularly for our own use. This may be getting a little ahead of it all but it may address some of the valid concerns DW outed before.

I have no illusions on the amount of work it takes to put together the materials to make this work and I realize that not everyone will walk away from it satisfied. But that also happens with traditional apprenticeships, sometimes it just not meant to be.
Susan, thank you for offering yourself up as a guinea pig. It may be a little premature to go into that. In fact thinking about it I may prefer to start with someone local, document everything and than roll it out for distance learning.

Maybe the way to get started is with a standard work, such as Tim's book and continue from there with video and specific assignments that can be examined and critiqued by more experienced makers. Tim, sorry to say I don't own your book so I can't comment on that one specifically but heard good things about it.

Looking forward to keeping this discussion going and I will encourage those reading the Colloquy with the intention of learning the craft to jump in and let us know what you will be looking for in a course.

Rob

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Re: Schools

#46 Post by dw » Mon May 05, 2008 6:13 am

As for pursuing shoemaking as if it were a quasi-religious endeavor I would have to say that it depends upon how you define "religious." If we think of it in a canonical or liturgical sense, well yes, being based on certain time tested precepts and techniques that have evolved over relatively large spans of time, one would and probably ought to follow a well marked path to whatever level of knowledge one aspires to. Certainly as a teacher to deviate or discount those principles does no favor to the student. But this is a reality in any human endeavor...all science, medicine, even Art, is grounded in fundamental and "eternal" principles. We often don't want to admit to the canonical nature of these pursuits in the erroneous belief that it limits our creativity. There is an old oriental wisdom that postulates infinite freedom within four small walls---which says a great deal about the true nature of creativity and the human mind.

If one means something bordering on mystical or metaphysical when applying the term "religious," I would submit that nothing takes one into the realm of mysticism faster than the dismissing or discounting of traditions and "foundational principles," etc.. Or, if not the mystical, then at the very least into the realm of smoke and mirrors and "luck."

I am, of course, an empiricist by nature and all that I say here is informed by that basic nature. But I recognize...and stipulate...that all human endeavor that is worth doing is inevitably coloured by some level of speculation and philosophizing. Without it, life itself becomes rote and mundane. Shoemakers have always known this and have always been known as "philosophers." It is something the work, when approached in a respectful manner, draws out of you.

On a more practical level, the real problem is not the machinery or tools or or lack thereof, but the lack of flexibility in a curriculum. I can easily imagine a situation where a student conceives a question, or questions, that go beyond what is offered in a online course. I can imagine that because even in a three week, eight hour-a-day setting such as we offer, such questions arise. Fitting the foot is one example that comes to mind. Nothing short of one-on-one, personal attention can address such issues and more often than not even in a hands-on, intensive course with a teacher, something gets lost or left on the table.

How many times have we seen, right here on this board, a student who encounters a problem with fit...or with a machine...and with the best will in the world and half a dozen accomplished makers trying, no satisfactory answer can be reached?

Teaching...conveying a body of complex and maybe even "hallowed" knowledge...is a personal thing. It requires a level of commitment from both parties that transcends ordinary, casual interaction. One of the most compelling reasons this is so, is that it is not just facts that are transferred from one individual to the other but the passion and respect as well. Without it no one can excel, much less hold onto the vision over the time spans necessary to achieve something more than casual understanding or ordinary proficiency.

That there are students who want, or will settle for, "ordinary proficiency" is understandable but shortsighted. A good student will eventually surpass the abilities of a good teacher. But that has to be a real, if unspoken goal, on both sides of the table or the whole exercise devolves into a massive waste of time and money. That or the sort of dilettantism that gives rise to finger painting classes at the local community center.

It has been said that shoes can be made with a knife, a fork, and a hammer. Of course if we define shoes a little more loosely, we could substitute bone awls, flint knives, and strands of carefully worked tendon. At that level, however, classes seem superfluous almost. After all, our Paleolithic ancestors didn't have access to "books on tape" or online classes.

I don't doubt that moccasins can be, and are, amazingly complex and functional forms of footwear. But they are as the trilobite to the terrier--an order of magnitude less evolved and less refined than the bespoke shoes of today.

So, accepting that premise, it sort of begs the question, doesn't it?...where do you want to end up? I would guess...in fact I would place a bet...that there isn't a master shoemaker posting to this board that did not make sandals before he made shoes. We all start somewhere and moccasins are a good place to start. But every one of those master shoemakers are masters, simply and necessarily, because they were not satisfied with that level of sophistication.

I am of the opinion that whenever human beings pursue knowledge it is not only inevitable but meet and right that ever increasing levels of subtlety and nuance become the focus of that pursuit. It is the only way to transcend ignorance.

Maybe....just because I have taught this subject for the last 25 years...I have a bias that leads me to deplore anything that smacks of "good enough" or stasis. That a student would, in any wise, be satisfied with any body of knowledge that does not throw open the doors to growth is unfortunate. That a teacher can or might, deliberately or through simple indifference, close those doors is deplorable.

If an online course can be set up that addresses all of these concerns, then I say go for it. If the teacher is mindful of these concerns, more power to him. And if he can hack the nearly continuous drain on his time and attention that such a long distance relationship implies...perhaps with multiple individuals....without dumbing down his curriculum, he deserves a medal.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

luckyduck

Re: Schools

#47 Post by luckyduck » Mon May 05, 2008 7:37 am

Wow,

I guess I stirred things up again. Sorry.

First, a little of my shoe making background to explain where I am coming from.

I did a 6 month apprenticeship with a moc and sandal maker that was a really bad experience, much like the sort DW deplores above.

I also took Alan Z's Shoe School. It was great and I learned a lot extra because of the apprenticeship. If you have been stuck, you can ask extra questions that you wouldn't think of otherwise. If anyone is thinking of taking a class, I recommend struggling through and making a couple really bad pairs of shoes on your own first. Then when you see the correct way to do it, you really appreciate it and understand why it is so much better.

My current shoe business is making lasted sandals, an occasional fancy moccassin, and some lasted stitch down hiker style boots for friends and family. Unlasted sandals are difficult to get consistent sizing on and the lasted ones just turn out better for me.

On the side I am also working with some Amish and other groups more in putting together a "buy local" food distribution network. Working with that level of tech has made me wish for less of it in my own life.

I don't disagree with DW that it is easier and faster to use a pile of factory style machinery to make a nice boot (and I use most of it on sandals). BUT, to me that is a slippery slope toward celastic toe boxes and premade tops. Sometimes the point is to learn and hopefully share the skills instead of making a pile of boots. Perhaps I am even farther out along that continum than DW. (Yikes! Image )

So, if a person such as myself has a goal of learning to make hand finished western boots where is a good place to start? I am happy using the crimping boards (I use a funky set to pre-stretch my moccassin uppers)and even up to treadle speed sewing machines, but want to avoing the Landis 12k, heel nailers, and stinky glues.

Is the way to start getting a book (like yours DW?) and struggling through a couple pair using my 12k and line finisher? Then I could take the class and add a level of difficulty with each pair to finally end up doing it all by hand. Or maybe learn why I don't want to sell the machines that take so much room in my shop. Either way, it would be an adventure.

Thanks for all the thoughts and opinions.

Paul

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Re: Schools

#48 Post by dw » Mon May 05, 2008 8:07 am

Paul,

I'd be disingenuous if I said that getting a book like mine doesn't fall prey to many of the same shortcomings that I deplore. I would feel uncomfortable, if not defensive, to offer the books but no in-shop course. At the very least, I do offer an unlimited support package (on your nickel).

As for use of machinery, I have said often...perhaps to the point of harping...that machines are just tools. And the best tool is wasted in the wrong hands...or hands that have no connection to the heart (as pretentious as that may sound). So I understand your point about the "slippery slope" as well as anyone here.

But in thirty five years of making boots with machines I have never had any inclination towards celastic or iron nails or plastic welts, etc..

I have always felt that shoes and boots sort of reached a pinnacle around the mid to late 19th century--when the best of both worlds (the hand traditions and the impulse towards mechanization) were beginning to merge. In that context, and if you are looking at making cowboy boots, it may be wise to remember that most of the machinery we use (or I use, at least) has its origins in the early to mid 19th century. Even the Amazeen skiver was invented circa 1844 or something like that.

All that said, I have done a great deal of hand work on shoes and boots...nothing close to 64 to the inch but...and I value it. I also value the machine work. Bottom line is, if using a tool doesn't detract from the quality of a boot or of a process (sideseaming a boot, for instance) then there is no harm nor foul.

Otherwise, remember...you can always go back to using your teeth. Image


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Re: Schools

#49 Post by kadwart » Mon May 05, 2008 8:11 am

DW - there you are... We really have to get together some time to hash out these philosophical difference. C'mon, it'll be fun...

As always, there is a lot to respond to in your post and as always I am on the run getting things ready for the morning rush out the door, so I will keep this brief.

Now speaking as a west coast trilobite - or should that be troglodyte - what I would really like you to explain to me is:

1. you have said that mocs are an order of magnitude "less evolved" than shoes and boots. However, you haven't explained exactly why you think this. What is your evolutionary model for moc, boot and shoe making?

2. This indicates to me a certain amount of hierarchical thinking in play. I am not saying that this is wrong. I am asking you to suggest areas in which you might be able to move from what you think of as the pre-historic, less evolved, less complex and limited form of moc making to shoe and boot making.

3. One of the reasons I am asking is this is because if you can't explain it then all you have is an assertion. And if you can't explain it then I really I think you have no way of moving people forward progressively through levels of complexity. An assertion without explanation is a door-closer, if you ask me.

4. I agree (don't faint, I actually agree) that in the ideal education is an ultimate act of irony in that students should get to the point where they don't need an instructor/mentor/teacher. There's a whole passel of material on teaching students to be liflong learners and all of that which I am not going to get into but which I think involves fostering peoples' desire to learn and encouraging their growth, even if it means you have to watch them head down a few blind alleys.

5. And haveing said that, I would ask you one last thing for now: how do you think dismissing someone's beginning aspirations (moc making is OK but oh so primitive) as a prehistoric blind alley is going to foster their growth? Sometimes you have to watch people make what you think of as mistakes (any other parent on this board will recognize that one).

And to say what amounts to "what you are doing is all well and good but it lacks the skills and sophistication of REAL footwear construction" or to imply that people have limited aspirations, intent, or desire because they want to start at a particular point is rather dismissive.

If there is freedom in four walls and I choose to call those four walls moc making am I any less free than someone who chooses as their walls boot making?

Morning, everyone,
Sue

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dearbone
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Re: Schools

#50 Post by dearbone » Mon May 05, 2008 9:37 am

Here are some examples of moccasins made on lasts.
The first "Gendron Penetang" shoe-shop and tannery was founded by Mitchel Gendron, in the town of Penetanguishene,Ontario in the year 1835.(see simcoe couty pioneer and historical Society pioneer papers, No.6,page 144).sorry about the qualty of the prints.
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7467.jpg (34 KiB) Viewed 1739 times

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