The Crispin Colloquy

Erick
After looking at the picture from my last post, I got to thinking and I tried something ,you can do this stitch on a Mckay Sticher. The machine doesn't get in your way you will have to modify the feed foot but it will work .I went back in the shop and my machine comes with a pic type feed foot that will move the material along without getting in the way of the needle and I can replicate that stitch shown in the picture.You can do stitch downs on your Mckay sticher,however if you want the sticher to last/press down the upper youwill need to make more modifications on that feed foot.but you can last them tight by hand and then use the Mckay for stiching. Hope this helps. Thanks for making me think.LOL
Come on up and I Can show you on my machine.
Larry Waller
Walrus Shoe & Leather Co,LLC

Larry,
Thanks for posting that, has Hudson or anyone ever quoted you on one of those? If a MacKay can do this, I maybe better off.

The cover on my CN fell on my thumb, so i'm not doing a lot of typing right now.

I can call you next week, an d then I can take a fax.

Thanks for the info,

Erick

Larry,

I've never seen a machine like that. Looks like it would be the right tool, alright. Thanks for posting it because my advice was a little like the blind leading the blind. Or maybe not...Erick probably knows more about it than I do. Still think that a Straight-Needle or the Frobana/Junker is a dead end for this work, though.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Hello.

I know I haven't said much in the past but I have a pair of stitch down boot's that I had to fix.

My Rapid E will do very thick soles and go deep on a welt but the first row of stitching I had to hand stitch with a Mckay needle in a wooden Awl handle. The holes were already there so it was easy to hand stitch but it can be done by hand chisle 3 or 4 holes at a time right around the boot and then hand stitching the boot with a mckay needle.

Guy Shannon

Hi there, Ruth here in England
I have an old Singer 29K leather sewing machine, with upper feed.
Could I ask, does anyone know what the notched threading wire looks like ? Mine was missing when I purchased the machine. It's used to pass the thread through the needle bar.
If I know what its sposed to look like maybe I can make one from an old guitar string or something?
Thanks, Ruth

Does anyone know what machine the Italian shoe repairers use as a patcher.

Hi Norma,
could be Adler or a Rolfenbach or a name similar to this, Adler is obviously German but the Rolfenbach (sp???) is Italian I'm sure, they make other footwear machines and are, or were painted green.

More power to y'awl.
T.

Norma,
Claes would be another one.
More power to y'awl.
T.

You can ship a large sewing machine anywhere in the U.S. for under $300.00. Go online to "Foward Air" an American straight needle will fit in their small container. They are fast, two to three days anywhere in the U.S.

My husband and I have in our possession a Frobana A.G. Barman sole stitcher with a number 0f 10644 on it. Any significant data on this or what? We did have it checked out by an appraisser, but he seemed not to be interested in it. The only thing he said was it could bring in $1,200.00 Anybody got any ideas on where to take it or give more info on it?

I have the opportunity to purchase a group of boot and shoemaking equipment. There are a few things in there that I'm not familiar with. Could or would somebody educate me a bit?
Welt puller
shoe press
welt cutter

Thanks
Terri Courtney

If the shoe press is a hydrulic one you will learn to love it. I have no idea what a welt puller is but a USM welt cutter was a machine used in factory production to cut the welt after it is sewn on the shoe, not much use if you aren't doing 1200 pair a day. If it is a machine to make your own welt that is a different story. Got any pics?
tom

Tom,
I will take some pics when I look at the stuff in the next week or so. Thanks for reply.
Terri

Shoe presses were originally designed to work with "press cement." And at one time early in my career I aspired to a shoe press with some enthusiasm because I had an interest in the Silver Cup shoe repair competition and was told by reliable sources that all the entries in the half sole division were bonded with press cement and a press.

I don't know what a welt puller is either. Like tom, I'd be interested in seeing some photos of both the puller and the cutter.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

The Boughton Faire Memorial Bazaar: Equipment Question

Terri

Your original question mentioned “a group of boot and shoemaking equipment” and then moved on to a list which included a “shoe press”. In view of the context you provided, I think this is likely to refer to a clicking (cutting) press rather than a sole attaching press. Tom asked the critical question “Got any pics?” which would clear this up.

Perhaps a brief explanation would help. A clicking press is normally hydraulic. The machine has either a swing arm or a travelling head which is brought over a cutting die (press knife) which has been positioned accurately on top of the material to be cut. The head or arm moves down far enough to push the die right through the material. If you have never seen a cutting die, think of an industrial strength pastry (cookie) cutter in the shape of a vamp/quarter/counter etc. The press does the job of your hand pushing. by the die down hard enough to cut shoemaking materials rather than pastry.

The other type of press is more specifically called a sole attaching press. This is used to press the sole into contact with the bottom of the shoe with sufficient pressure and for a long enough period for the adhesive to attach the sole well enough for the shoe to be removed from the press without the sole becoming detached. In practical terms, sole attaching presses for the shoe repairing are significantly different to those made for shoemaking.

Frank Jones
frank.jones@shoemaking.com

re shoe presses...is there much to be gained with a manual shoe press if you are using Barge (as opposed to press cement) to cement the layers together, or is the Barge fine without the extra "muscle"? Been watching Ebay for a press, but if it's only needed for press cement and not Barge, I won't bother...

Jenny

I've never heard a "clicker" (which is what Frank is describing) called a shoe press...not that it couldn't have been. But to my mind the word "clicker" describes the machine well, because a "clicker" (a word that can also refer to an individual) cuts out patterns...with a "clicker knife"...or, in the case of the machine (which has inevitably displaced many, many "clickermen" ) with "clicker dies."

But if you say shoe press to me, I think of...well, "pressing."

Is the diference in terminology cultural or geographic?

That said, the context of your equipment find does suggest a factory context and the likelihood of there being a "shoe repair press" in the factory is small.

No biggie, photos would clear up the mystery, toot sweet, however.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Jenny Fleishman

You say “re shoe presses” and then talk about Barge Cement, so I am assuming you mean sole attaching presses.

The only real benefit for the hand shoemaker/repair is if you are using an adhesive with little or no “tack”. This is the technical term used by adhesive manufacturers to describe the initial bond strength immediately on contact.

There are two main types of sole attaching adhesives used in shoe making, determined by the elastomer (the rubbery stuff) in the adhesive. In the trade they are normally called Neoprene and Polyurethane. To be correct, the first one should be known as polychloroprene, because “Neoprene” is (or was) a Dupont trade mark.

Neoprene adhesive (for example - Barge Cement) is a contact adhesive and has excellent tack. Polyurethane adhesives are widely used in shoe manufacture because Neoprene does not stick certain shoemaking materials well. These are mainly PVC and ThermoPlastic Rubber. Polyurethane adhesive does not have good tack and so needs to be used with a press.

Hand shoemakers rarely use PVC or TPR, so Barge Cement is the standard.

So to sum up, use Barge and you do not need a press.

Frank Jones
frank.jones@shoemaking.com

Ok, got a question for you. Had a guy get my name through connections and it turns out he has a shoe repair shop worth of, in his words "big heavy sewing machines, like a Landis something and a big thing with lots of wheels on it". All in use until a relative of a friend who was a shoe repair guy died a couple years ago. He admitted a lot of it was heaps of old vibram soling and stuff like that.

He is an hour away and it is all in a trailer that he doesn't want to unload in his barn. SO the $2 question is, assuming the stuff looks in reasonable condition, how much is a shoe shop of equipment worth? I am sure I will get a discount if I help unload it.

Thanks

Paul

Paul,

I've seen shops full of stuff like that offered from $3000-$20,000. Hard to say, of course.

Paul

Paul,

I agree with Paul, it all depends.
You should fist consider if you need it, if you have the room to set it up and the patience to learn how to take the machine apart and put it back together, changes are you will have to sooner or later.
If it has been stored in a trailer for a couple of years be careful! Things likely have rusted up significantly.
I find that machines that come from shoe repair outfits usually have not been maintained all that well. Specially the old timers attitude often is "It'll last as long as I need it to and if it breaks, well that's the sign I've been waiting for to take retirement."

That said sometimes you run into some very nice finds for little money. Remember for used shoe equipment, it's a buyers market. Their only other alternative is to sell it for scrap.

About 3 years ago I was offered a curved needle stitcher, can't remember the model, less than 10 years old and in good shape for $3000 to give you a price gauge.

Hope that helps.

Rob

Thanks Paul and Rob,

I don't really want all of it, especially not a whole finisher. A McKay stitcher and a post machine are all I am looking for right now.

I will take good notes and pictures, perhaps a listing by the end of next week. It helps that it has been on the trailer a couple weeks and the guy was hinting that he would like to sell it rather than store it in his barn. Actually he said it was his Dad's barn and he didn't want to put it all in there while it still worked and then haul it out as scrap in 10 years when it is all rusty.

Paul

Paul,
Be careful I have seen some real messes "stored in trailers". This greates disadvantage is that it is all packed in and there is not good lighting.
I have a new adler 68-202s double needle Post Machine if you are interested. Give me a call or drop me aline and we will talk about it.

John Stumpf
John's Custom Leather
www.jclleather.com
www.johnscustomleather.com
www.jclleathermachinery.com
e-mail: jrstumpf@netzero.net

I Just purchased a Gritzner Sole Stitcher and wanting to know if anyone has had any luck locating needles or having needles modified from other machines? Will probably be in need sooner or later. Sources anyone?

Also, most important, Might anyone have a manual they might be willing to copy and let me buy or have? This is such a beautiful machine, I want to do right by it. If so, Please email me at
fiberfling@socket.net
Bunny

does anyone know about a walking foot for adler 30-1 patcher